Discussion:
Ten reasons to NOT buy Belfort DigiWx AWOS (keep reading)
(too old to reply)
awos
2005-11-04 19:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Not soooo SuperAWOS
http://piperowner.org/viewforumtopic.asp?id=3D39090


Author: Dave
Date: 3/20/2005 10:55:50 AM

SuperUnicom (manufactured by Potomac Aviation
Technology)
is an AWOS wannabe, they are also light years from
being
where they need to be!

SuperAWOS only has: 1) certified barometer,
and 2) certified visibility sensor (procured
from a foreign company)


Ten reasons to NOT buy SuperUnicom:

1) no certified wind speed <--- plastic crap
2) no certified wind direction <--- more plastic crap
3) no certified temperature
4) no certified dewpoint
5) no certified density altitude
6) no certified visibility
7) no certified precipitation measurement
8) no certified precipitation discriminator
9) no certified ceiling measurement
10) no certified lightning detection

No internet uploads, no telephone dial-in!

It's also DAMN EXPENSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Author: turbo dave
Date: 3/22/2005 1:04:26 PM

I'm not sure what your point is. Did you actually buy
one?



Author: David Wartofsky - E-Mail Address
Date: 6/8/2005 1:49:51 PM

Good Afternoon!

Apparently you either work for an AWOS manufacturer,
or you have some economic interest in preserving the
traditional AWOS industry. (?)

The biggest constraints to airports getting AWOS'es is
smaller airports not having the typical $10-15,000 per
year to keep maintaining a traditional AWOS systems,
even when some government agency buys the system for
them.

State and Federal budgets can't pay for traditional
AWOS systems anymore, so imagine having THAT annuakl
cost tacked onto your tie-down, hangar and fuel costs!

I cannot speak for the DigiWX, as that is a
'knock-off' that has been trying to follow in our path
for the last few years. They've recognized that
weather sensing is child's play. Operating over a
unicom frequency in a non-interfering manner, now
that's where the voodoo comes in.

As airport OWNERS and as a PILOT (see
www.potomac-airfield.com), we were developing this
system at a time we were pushing over 70,000
operations per year at this small airport. in other
words, the unicom on a pleasant Saturday was like a
cattle auction.

To not make a mess of an airport's busy unicom it
became obvious that an automated unicom had to be
smart enough to know when to shut up, and about what.
In other words, to "adapt" the information it provides
over the unicom to nothing more than what is relevant
to flight operations at the moment a pilot is seeking
specific information.

Coming into DCA, listening to the AWOS to get the
winds, primarily, I tell pilots to check fuel,
throttle back, and be prepared to orbit for awhile.
The traditional AWOS message is 30 sec to 1 min of
SOMETIMES useful info.

But there is no point in tying up a unicom to tell
everyone the viz is better than 20 miles, or the temp
is a pleasant 72 degress. Under those conditions, the
information is useless and interferes with normal
unicom ops.

As the head of the AWOS program said to me, "AWOS
algorithms are designed for general trends, on the
assumption that the pilot will then turn to unicom or
tower for more current information."

So we came up with a system that 1

1=2E Responds to inbound pilots, to let them know the
system is there and how to use it.

2=2E Provides two-way radio-checks, essential to almost
any IFR flight and darn useful even for VFR these
days. And last, but not least,

3=2E Weather information.

As a pilot, FAA 'approval' or 'certification' of a
system's ALTIMETER is essential, not because it's hard
to do, technologically, that's easy, but because FAA
approval allows the PILOT to 'legally' use the
altimeter information to comply with the pilot's
FLIGHT REQUIREMENTS.

Next came opening IFR approaches to commercial ops,
which ONLY require the additional 'certification' of
visibility, to meet commercial FLIGHT REQUIREMENTS.

TA DA, certified altimeter & visibility, the only
values which are of regulatory benefit to pilots, and
thereby of economic value to the airports trying to
attract them.

So why not 'certify' temp, dewpoint, and other
non-required data? Why indeed?!

Each element that is certified imposes on the
AIRPORT's budget, (and yours too, if you're a pilot,
even if indirectly), significant maintenance and
technical costs. It is these costs that make AWOS
uneconomical for most smaller airports. We only
certified the specific weather values that are of
regulatory benefit TO PILOTS, allowing them to comply
with FLIGHT REQUIREMENTS, which is all they need.

Sensor accuracy is brain dead simple. Even the most
basic harry-homeowner systems are now available with
NIST traceability, meeting or exceeding the 1970's
AWOS standards.

Seeking 'government approval' is more a matter of
where you really want to have the government involved
with telling you how and when to fly.

I personally prefer less government jurisdiction than
more.

We've had systems in deserts and hurricanes for nearly
10 years, and never has any of them even been damaged.
In fact, often it was these same sensors that reported
the highest winds during hurricanes, after all the
other equipment in the area failed.

Our wind algorithms are interesting. Our long-line
data uses standard AWOS two-minute averaging, which is
great for forecasting and flight planning, but can
obvuiously be misleading during unstable conditions;
partiocularly if you are coming into a small airfield,
trying to figure out what to expect at the runway
threshold.

As the FAA's head of plans and procedures said to me,
after I explained the difference between what we do
over unicom and the regular AWOS winds, "That explains
all the trouble we've been having with these AWOS
systems. We've even tried relocating a bunch, and all
we hear is they give nutty winds."

QED

Our design goal was to select the LOWEST inertia wind
sensor, so that it could respond rapidly to changing
conditions. Our unicom wind algorithm reflects more a
talking windsock than a mathematical average of what
is otherwise ancient history, i.e. the last two
minutes.

So there is logic behind it all.

Feel free to give me a call sometime, be dleighted to
chat: 301 248-5720

David Wartofsky
Potomac Airfield
www.potomac-airfield.com www.superawos.cmo



Author:
Date: 6/9/2005 8:50:54 PM

The only thing "super" about SuperUnicom is the price.
It's "super expensive" at around $65K per system. The
other system that Mr. Wartofsky mentions (DigiWX)
compares most favorably (feature for feature) and
sells in the low $40K range instead. Mr. Wartofsky
comments "that's where the voodoo comes in." Do you
know anyone willing to pay $25K more for some "voodoo"
of the SuperUnicom kind when you can have an automated
Unicom DigiWX weather system that activates upon "mic
clicks," offers a "radio check" capability while also
"adapting" to frequency congestion? Hell, you can buy
an AWOS from Vaisala and All Weather Inc. with all the
weather sensors "certified" and you still won't pay
$65K even though Mr. Wartofsky claims you don't need
to have certified weather sensors in this day and age
of NIST traceable standards! An obvious question for
Mr. Wartofsky is why would someone pay for two
certified weather sensors (which SuperUnicom offers
for $65K) versus a whole suite of certified sensors as
found on the Vaisala and AWI systems? Also, where is a
current SuperUnicom user's list? And where is a
current SuperUnicom reference list? Mr. Wartofsky
currently lists three references on his website. All
three reference letters are dated from year 2000! Is
that the best SuperUnicom can offer? How many
SuperUnicom systems were actually bought and put into
service during 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001? At least
DigiWX lists about 40 installed systems on their
website. So that leaves several hundred remaining
AWOSs in the field that would have the Vaisala and AWI
name thereupon. Are there any with the SuperAWOS
imprinted on them? I WONDER!!! Mr. Wartofsky (like
most story-tellers and sales people) will tell you
what you WANT to hear. He won't tell you what you NEED
to hear. Now you know another side of this story. That
SuperUnicom product behind the curtain is NOT what it
seems!!!



Author: T PURCELL - E-Mail Address
Date: 6/12/2005 10:23:25 PM

I find it interesting that who ever you are you choose
to hide your identity.
We have had a Super-AWOS at our field and it has been
a blessing.
It never has broken or missed a radio call in the year
plus we've had it.
The Super-AWOS has greatly enhanced safety and
profits.
If you're going to continue to throw mud you should at
least have the decency and courage to identify who you
are and what your agenda is.

Tom Purcell



Author:
Date: 6/15/2005 8:07:21 PM

I find it interesting Mr. Purcell that you choose to
hide the identity of your airport. SuperAWOS did not
receive FAA Approval until June 28, 2004 yet you claim
you've had yours for a "year plus!" Me thinks you're
full of it!

Any weather station compared to a windsock will
greatly enhance safety and profits. SuperUnicom
doesn't have a corner on the safety and profits
markets!

The "anonymous" poster brought to light some really
good questions for which SuperUnicom doesn't appear to
have any equally good answers. Mr. Wartofsky just
rambled on!

So let the questions be asked again because inquiring
minds want to know:

1) What does one get for paying nearly a 40% premium
for SuperUnicom ($65K) versus a Digiwx ($40K) system?

2) Where is a current SuperUnicom user's list?

3) Where is a current SuperUnicom reference list?

4) How many SuperUnicom systems were actually bought
and put into service during 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002,
2001?

5) Does/can SuperAWOS provide "certified" ceiling
info?


DON'T attack the messenger because you don't like the
truthful message being promulgated!

BTW: Current is not info from the year 2000!



Author: David Wartofsky - E-Mail Address
Date: 6/16/2005 1:59:26 PM

Okay, I'll respond to your ongoing challenges!

PRICE

First of all, claiming that DigiWX must be better
"because it costs less" should immediately raise some
question as to WHY does the DigiWX cost less?

Maybe it doesn't exactly work as advertised?

You appear impressed by the information provided on
Belfort's DigiWX website.

As the Lost in Space robot used to say, "DANGER WILL
ROBINSON, DANGER, DANGER!"

To avoid making a mess of a busy unicom frequency
requires a ground-based transceiver to be sensitive
enough to detect almost all of the radio
communications chatter a pilot is exposed to AT
ALTITUDE, AT DISTANCE. What you typically hear on the
groubnd is only a small fraction of what an airborne
pilot is exposed to, as any pilot will confirm. If you
can't detect the airborne pilot's radio environment,
then you cannot really tell when your own
transmissions will step over others.

That kind of RF sensitivity ain't easy to do.

THEN, once you are accurately detecting ALL unicom
communications, then you need a refined 'AI' that can
adapt to congestion of the Unicom frequency.

WHEN the DigiWX replies, (IF!), it always does so with
a fixed-length message of about 30 seconds. How would
you like a robotic idiot to tie up your airport's
unicom for 30 secs at a time, regardless of how jammed
the frequency may be?

So, in sum, there is a not necessarily obvious
'voodoo' to create a system that is 'polite' on busy
unicom frequencies.

Installed, a 'traditional' AWOS system runs about
$125-$150,000. One recently installed for over
$180,000. The price of the boxes is one thing, it's
everything else that drives their cost over the
horizon for most airports.

So, to get a system that is proven and actually works,
the SuperAWOS offers a huge savings.

REFERENCES

The 'traditional' AWOS stuff actually works as
advertised. The major thing that comes out about
traditional AWOS manufacturers is their customer
support, it's cost and responsiveness. The equipment
does what it claims, no less, and NO MORE.

But try actually CALLING DigiWX's references. Try
asking if anyone actually HAS or HAS HAD the equipment
intalled and actually operating on their airport's
Unicom, or whether the few actually installed are
anything more than just pretty displays in the lobby.

(I agree, their lobby display IS pretty!)

It should also make you stop and think that DigiWX
lists the 'Baltimore Harbor' as the "Baltimore
Airport." There ain't no such thing, it's a test site
on top of their building; no airport there.

We will provide qualified parties interested in the
SuperAWOS with a complete list of REAL references,
many who have had our equipment working for many
years; but we respect and protect their privacy,
trying not to impose on their willingness to make
themselves available.

--------

In other words, unlike others, no vaporware from us.
We don't need to toot our horn so loud, because we
have never felt the need to.

Those that know, know. Those that don't know,
speculate., sometimes correctly, sometimes not.

We also refuse to compete on price against little more
than pretty brochures. Pretty brochures are not real
competition, as some folks have already discovered.

---------

Who are you, and what is the basis of your experience
or interest in automated weather?

I'm curious.

D

David Wartofsky



Author: T PURCELL
Date: 6/16/2005 4:53:15 PM

LIKE THE COWAED YOU ARE YOU CONTINUE TO HIDE YOUR
IDENTITY!!!
WE HAD A UNIT AT OUR FIELD OPERATING AS A SUPER-UNICOM
AND THEN ADDED VISIBILITY AFTER IT BECAME AVAILABLE.

WE LOOKED AT DIGIWX (I SUSPECT YOUR EMPLOYER) AND
AFTER FINDING MANY OF THEIR REFERENCES DID NOT EXIST
AND THOSE THAT DID WERE VERY SORRY FOR THE DECISION
PURCHASED SUPERUNICOM/AWOS.

WE SPOKE WITH OVER 25 AIPORTS WITH SUPER-UNICOM AND
AWOS AND THEY COULD NOT SAY ENOUGH POSITIVE



Author: T. PURCELL
Date: 6/16/2005 5:06:25 PM

TRUE TO YOUR COWARDLY FORM YOU CONTINUE TO HIDE WHO
YOU ARE.

TO ANSWER YOUR PERRY MASON MOMENT WE HAD A
SUPER-UNICOM THAT WE UPGRADED TO SUPER-AWOS WHEN THEIR
VISIBILITY SENSOR BECAME AVAILABLE.

UNLIKE DIGIWX WHOSE LIST OF USERS IS LARGELY FALSE
(TRY CALLING THEM)
SUPER-AWOS SUPPLIED ME WITH A LIST OF 25 AIPORTS AND
CONTACT NAMES WHO ARE EXTREMELY HAPPY WITH THEIR
DECISION. WHEN I DID REACH SOMEONE WITH A DIGIWX THEIR
RESPONSE WAS VERY NEGATIVE. ONE AIRPORT HAS EVEN
REPLACED THEIR DWX AFTER ONLY 2.5 YEARS BECAUSE "IT
NEVER WORKED".

I'M DONE RESPONDING TO YOU UNTIL YOU REVEAL WHO YOU
ARE, I THINK WE ALL KNOW WHO YOU WORK FOR.
TOM PURCELL



Author:
Date: 6/18/2005 10:14:52 AM

You SU cheerleaders don't read to well, do you? So let
the questions be asked again because inquiring minds
want to know:

1) What does one get for paying nearly a 40% premium
for SuperUnicom ($65K) versus a Digiwx ($40K) system?

2) Where is a current SuperUnicom user's list?

3) Where is a current SuperUnicom reference list?

4) How many SuperUnicom systems were actually bought
and put into service during 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002,
2001?

5) Does/can SuperAWOS provide "certified" ceiling
info?


DON'T attack the messenger because you don't like the
truthful message being promulgated!

BTW: Current is not info from the year 2000!

I got a chuckle out of the "privacy" concern raised
considering that SU is *supposedly* installed at
several public-use airports! How much more public does
an airport need to be to also be "private" and have
privacy rights? If the SU system is so great, people
should be having diarrhea of the mouth about it! I
have never pretended that DW has all the solutions but
from my research they have everything the SU has (and
more) for a lower price. It's just like the price of
PCs, they have been dropping since the 1990s! Modern
weather weathers utilize digital sensors plus PC
software and hardware. So the price of weather systems
should be dropping too, much like DW! Besides, the
makers of DW have only been around for a 100 plus
years, they are not a fly-by-night organization! Oh,
and another thing, I checked into that Baltimore
Harbor airport at:

http://www.digiwx-baltimore.com

It's not actually an airport, it's a floating heliport
on a pier according to the folks at:

http://www.baltimoremarinecenter.com

And no I don't work for the competition! But I do
belive in a fair competitive marketplace, do you SU
cheerleades concur? And I can't stand when some OEMs
will try to charge you the price of a Cadillac when a
Chevy will get you to your final destination with
maybe a little less comfort (if you really don't need
the heated seats)!



Author:
Date: 6/18/2005 12:26:52 PM

Long-Awaited Superunicom Repairs

After paying HOW MUCH and people are waiting HOW LONG?

Just how long does it take to repair a Superunicom?


http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/xml/services/transpo/airportnov2003.pdf
notes:

"Bruce and I have been told that the long-awaited
repairs to the SUPERUNICOM are complete and the unit
will be delivered within the next seven to ten days."



Author:
Date: 6/18/2005 12:31:15 PM

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/messing.html

"Next to the pumps, I saw the new airport manager
(whom I know fairly well), one of the airport staff,
and a buddy huddled around an open equipment box
installed on the wind-swept ramp. The Superunicom was
down, and they were trying to get it working again."

Do you Superunicom fans want to explain this one?



Author:
Date: 6/18/2005 12:53:19 PM

Just how "adaptive" is that Superunicom technology?

Sounds like that "voodoo" needs some tweaking, huh?

"Don't know the cost difference (probably
substancial), but I'd rather have AWOS installed on
the field. My current field has both the AWOS and the
SuperUnicom installed. Drives you nuts to hear people
clicking away at the SuperUnicom every 5 minutes when
AWOS is available. Throw half a dozen planes in the
local pattern plus numerous other non-towered fields
within 100nm being on the same freq and it can be
pretty tough to get your position reports in between
the radio checks, automated advisories, and the
extended advisories. I love it when SuperUnicom tells
me "Caution! Density altitude 5000" when the field
elevation is 5820'."

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.aviation.piloting/browse_frm/thread=
/28a5ff849ff85306/db45ad8a4ab5d8b4?q=3Dsuperunicom&rnum=3D1#db45ad8a4ab5d8b4

With references like this, Superunicom or SuperAWOS
(nothing super here) doesn't need to publish any
lists?

:)



Author:
Date: 6/18/2005 1:03:00 PM

Gonna quit for now --- It's time to take the trash
out!

:)



Author: G S Loff - E-Mail Address
Date: 6/18/2005 2:47:18 PM

Any legitimate airport manager, board member or their
designated representative may request our information
package. We are not going to waste money on someone
with such an obvious axe to grind.
Dozens of airports are singing our praises but we
won't waste their time with someone like you who
obviously has plenty of time to waste.
What gives you the right to invade our clients privacy
when you go to such great lengths to hide who you are?

The long and the short of it is anyone needing AWOS
will contact the various manufacturers, do the due
diligence and make an informed decision. So lie,
mislead and blow all the smoke you want to.

Proudly signed,
GS Loff



Author: GSL - E-Mail Address
Date: 6/18/2005 4:30:15 PM

One question. How come none of the negative assertions
come with any identificaton or contact information?
Could they be from the same source?
Next time you "take out the trash" remember to feed
the chickens.
GL



Author: airport bum
Date: 6/19/2005 9:41:41 AM

as someone already pointed out, and i'm beginning to
believe.... don't fault the messenger if it's the
message that you object too. what difference would it
make if you actually knew the anonymous poster or not?
for as defensive as you superunicom folks seem to be,
there must be a lot of truth to the assertions leveled
at the superunicom product. it just seems to me that
some very valid questions have been raised and versus
providing answers "for those who want to know," that
you superunicom folks are now "waging war" because
someone or somebodies has unpleasant but truthful
things to say. i wouldn't want you guys showing up
uninvited on my front porch.... besides, i'd want you
to go thru a metal detector first!

the three references quoted in this forum are
eye-opening. it takes the assertions about the
superunicom product to a credible level (versus your
alleged phone calls to digiwx customers).... direct me
to something written by an actual digiwx user! why
would you superunicom folks be dialing up digiwx
customers anyway? are you looking to stir up
something? are you superunicom folks that threatened
and insecure? sounds like those chickens have come
back home to roost in the superunicom backyard....
imagine that!

if it was that easy to find three "unsatisfied" or
"frustrated" or "unhappy" superunicom owners who
decided to put their experiences and objections in
writing, how hard would it be to call your customer
base (just like you called the digiwx user base) and
find customers who have a bad taste in their mouth
where the superunicom name is involved? "remember to
feed the chickens".... your words seem petty and
unprofessional. they only serve to throw fuel on this
raging fire! hopefully, those chickens won't be fed
any superunicom product.... less they croak!

all of this leaving me pondering (as someone already
asked) how many superunicom products were located on
airports during 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000?
seems like a very fair and simple question to answer.
why did you folks run for cover? why are you folks
hiding? how would you superunicom folks be invading
your customer's privacy by providing a numbers
breakdown year by year?

in my opinion, i think the whole "privacy issue"
raised is nothing more than a cloak to cover
superunicom's woes. that my friends is really a damn
shame (and a sham)!



Author: airport bum 2
Date: 6/19/2005 12:59:51 PM

Why do any of you feel your entitled to this
information?
Are you going to buy their product,
for that matter anyones product?

These guys have already said they will supply
information to qualified airports and associates.

I will say as a businessman I'm tired of board
loudmouths on the internet talking about things they
know nothing about.

By the way I read several negative comments about
digiwx in this forum one which appears written by the
same gallent gentleman currently leading the charge
against SUPERCOM.



Author:
Date: 6/19/2005 7:18:37 PM

WILL ROBINSON'S TETHER LINE GOT CUT! PROBABLY THE SAME
THING HAPPENED TO THE SUPERUNICOM OFFERING!



Author:
Date: 6/20/2005 5:41:29 PM

There was a SuperUnicom on the The William T. Piper
Memorial Airport
(http://www.lockhavencity.org/airport.htm) for a brief
period of time. It was gleefully replaced with a
DigiWx (http://www.digiwx.com) weather system during
the Spring of 2004.

DigiWx is manufactured by the Belfort Instrument
Company which provided a weather station for the
Wright Brothers back on December 17th, 1903!

Needless to say, it was like going from hell to
heaven; hell, being the SuperUnicom product! The
DigiWx has been pumping out weather data ever since
much to the delight of the flying community in Lock
Haven, Pennsylvania.

Our airport manager Ed Watson (570-748-5123) would be
happy to extol the benefits and features of the DigiWx
system.

The William T. Piper Memorial AIrport is "Home to the
original Piper Cub"

Come on up (or down) and visit sometime!



Author:
Date: 6/22/2005 12:04:09 AM

As one of the authors of one of several letters
written in support of the super unicom product I can
tell you the super unicom waswanted here. The purchase
of DWX was strickly $ and no sense decision. The city
had very limited funds and settled for a far, far
second best.
The DWX constantly misses calls and when it does
respond it goes on and on and on.



Author:
Date: 6/26/2005 8:27:57 PM

Who was the Super$h*t (aka SuperUnicom) wanted by?
Name names! We all agreed as a voting body to ditch
the SuperUnicom product because it wouldn't shut-up
when activated. Several also objected to the inbound
greeting. The voice-reco feature of DigiWx worked for
those who took the time to attend training! As soon as
we learned that DigiWx could be upgraded to mic
clicks, we couldn't wait to get it. So it sounds like
you're saying that you can't even click a mic right
huh? DigiWx was the best product we saw for the
dollars. SuperUnicom is a laughing joke and earns last
place in my book!



Author:
Date: 6/29/2005 10:32:08 AM

A more exact heads to heads analysis would be:

Digiwx vs. Superunciom

and

All Weather Inc vs. Vaisala

Digiwx (made by Belfort) and Superawos only have dual
barometer and visibility... no ceilometer or present
weather at this time!

Digiwx is reportedly working on a ceilometer (at least
they had a beta-version of a working one at SATS
2005). Superunicom apparently has no interest in
adding a ceilometer to their inferior weather station!
And Belfort did make several weather sensors that one
would find on the ASOS platform. What has Superunicom
done?

I would agree that Superawos is a "nobody" in the
weather world! But the Digiwx product still needs a
lot of work! Don't count on a certified ceilometer or
present weather sensor anytime soon! An AWOS III is
the standard in the aviation world and both All
Weather and Vaisala can deliver on that note!



Author:
Date: 6/29/2005 8:11:20 PM

From: Michelle P

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.ifr,
rec.aviation.marketplace, rec.aviation.student,
rec.aviation.owning

Subject: Re: Not soooo SuperAWOS

Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:56:05 GMT

I fly into and out of Hyde field [in Maryland] five or
more days a week. It is located right next to Potomac
Field, Dave's playground. We share a unicom frequency.
I hate the damn thing! It steps on the reply from Hyde
on airport conditions. No the conditions at Potomac
and Hyde are not the same. Potomac sits down in a
hollow. They may have no wind or light wind and the
wind at Hyde may be blowing the opposite direction. We
have a DigiWX.

Michelle



Author:
Date: 7/2/2005 8:39:19 AM

Dave Wartofsky's playground =3D Potomac airfield

Dave has a SuperUnicom at Potomac airfield

Both Potomac and Hyde airfield (about a mile away)
share the same Unicom frequency (122.8)

Hyde airfield =3D Washington Executive airport

SuperUnicom is always stepping on Unicom
radio transmissions from Hyde airfield

The SuperUnicom is HATED

Hyde has a DigiWx which is NOT stepping on
any Unicom radio transmissions

IMAGINE THAT!



Author:
Date: 7/7/2005 12:50:00 PM

I hate the damn SuperAWOS product too. They have it at
Bader field near Atlantic City, NJ and I've always
said this thing cannot distinguish who is clicking
their mic. You can have three people in the pattern
and if each one activates their respective mic once,
then the damn SuperUnicom goes off like a rocket. It
clutters the Unicom frequency making the giving of
position reports within the pattern impossible to give
until the damn thing shuts up! Ocean City, NJ (just
down the road) has a DigiWx and you don't have this
problem with the Belfort system because it is voice
activated instead and you have to say the distinct
"digi - bravo" phrase to activate it! I'd choose a
DigiWx any day of the week before I'd have a SuperAWOS
on my airfield if I had one!



Author:
Date: 7/9/2005 9:32:00 AM

Geeeeez... me thinks Superunicom (Superawos) has more
bad references here than good ones as noted on their
website. Superunicom.com lists only 3 references, all
from year 2000 which is about 5 years agooooooooooooo!
Yet how many have chimed in here saying they "hate"
the Superawos product???

With an actual user's reference list (like that
catalogued here) versus a "sanitized" list prepared by
Superunicom, me thinks this uncensored version is
probably a better realistic depiction of the Superawos
product.

Would anyone other than Dave Wartofsky or G S Loff
from Superunicom disagree?



Author:
Date: 7/13/2005 10:52:44 AM

I was reading thru the postings here and I see some
Digiwx bashing and some SuperUnicom (aka SuperAWOS)
bashing. Nothing new here to begin with, but when one
starts digging deeper, a disturbing picture begins to
develop.

Dave Wartofsky and his other henchman GS Loff attack
the Digiwx product ruthlessly. They go as far as
posting some real rubbish on their website comparing
the 2 products (Digiwx vs SuperAWOS), some of which
are distortions and others which are full-blown lies!
This is troubling considering that Superunicom has
been around for maybe 10-12 years at most --- they
could be here today and gone tomorrow. Belfort has
been around how long --- over a 100 years. I know who
I'm more inclined to believe; and it ain't
Superunicom's rubbish.

And this comes to the next truly troubling revelation.
Superunicom states on their website regarding
references that you need to contact them for a user's
list as they are "protecting the privacy" of their
customers. This one I just don't get! So are they
saying that it's more important to protect the
identity of a few airport managers versus protecting
the rest of the flyng aviation community because of
"privacy" concerns. So who owns the AWOS and the info
it disseminates? Didn't the taxpayers in this country
pay for the AWOS (all of them)? Why would you not
publish where an AWOS is located? Is this a truly
idiotic decision that does nothing to improve or
enhance aviation safety? Unfortunately, Mr.
Wartofsky's agrument is something I can't stomach; and
neither should anyone else.

Meanwhile, in an effort to promote aviation safety,
Belfort publishes a Digiwx user's list (all of them)
which can be viewed at http://www.digiwx.com

I'm guessing that Superunicom (aka SuperAWOS) doesn't
want to publish a list because they don't want the
taxpayers to find out how problem-prone the
Superunicom (aka SuperAWOS) system really is!!!!



Author: Rick Polanski
Date: 7/26/2005 5:37:59 PM

Since this thread seems to be maintaning momemtum, I'm
going to unwind as well. WIth the satelite
communicatin option, SuperAWOS uploads data to a
website maintained by Potomac Aviation on the hour.
There are no other updates during this hour PERIOD. We
are in the midst of thunderstom season and I would
agrue that SuperAWOS could miss and not report a
thunderstorm altogether. THIS IS SCARY! Here is how
that could happen:

Let's say the SuperAWOS sends a weather report on the
hour (let's pick 2PM or 1400 hours). If the sky can be
seen getting dark in the distant at 1415 and a strong
thunderstrm passes thru at 1430 and it clears up again
by 1445, then when SuperAWOS goes to report it's next
hourly observation at 3PM or 1500 hours, conceivably
it could make the same weather obsevation that it did
at 2PM with no indication that a thunderstorm has just
blown thru! Why is this important AND SCARY? If you
are on your way back to an airport where SuperAWOS is
only updating weather hourly, and the storm is blowing
from the NW to the SE (as most weather in the US
does), and you happpen to be in the southeast headed
for the northwest about 75 miles away with no other
reporting weather stationns in between, you could run
smack-dab into this thunderstorm. SuperAWOS is the
only weather station that makes hourly reports versus
minute by minute reports from most other AWOSes
available in the marketplace. This is just one more
reason to consider buying something other than a
SuperAWOS for your airport! You really need to
consider an AWOS from Vaisala or ALl Weather Inc. To
choose any other is to risk life, limb and property!



Author:
Date: 7/27/2005 8:15:06 AM

I just heard that DigiWx added mic clicks as a way of
activating a weather broadcast on the Unicom
frequency. IMO: If it's the typical bugware released
by most companies these days, then it probably doesn't
work as advertised. I guess we shall see! Are mic
clicks really better than voice activation? On the
plus side, DigiWx is a cool looking system. It's
wireless and has digital sensors. The accompanying
wind sensors are located on a 15' tower unlike the
SuperAWOS where the wind sensors are mounted a mere 4'
or so from the ground. At this height, SuperAWOS does
a better job of monitoring eddy currents than
prevailing airport wind conditions!!!!!!!!!

I give the nod to DigiWx



Author:
Date: 8/2/2005 4:15:57 PM

I couldn't agree more. If I'm flying instrument
conditions, I can tell you I'd like to know where the
weather data is coming from and who measured it. And
at this point, I wouldn't trust a SuperUnicom or
SuperAWOS or SuperTURD as far as I could throw that
overpriced boat anchor! Who in the hell is Potomac
Aviation Technology? What national or government
sponsored weather projects did these "yahoos" ever
provide weather sensors for? Wait till the first
lawsuit gets filed against them becasue their
overpriced boat anchor incorrectly reported the
altimeter setting or visibility. Talk about
cockroaches that scatter when the light gets turned
on. You probably ain't seen nothing until Potomac
Avaition Technology picks up and leaves town in the
middle of the night! Good Luck (cause you're gonna
need it) if you have one of these systems!



Author:
Date: 8/13/2005 1:21:53 PM

Everything originally noted about SuperAWOS could also
be said about Belfort Instrument's DigiWX, namely:

DigiWX only has: 1) certified barometer,
and 2) certified visibility sensor

Ten reasons to NOT buy DigiWX:

1) no certified wind speed <--- plastic crap
2) no certified wind direction <--- more plastic crap
3) no certified temperature
4) no certified dewpoint
5) no certified density altitude
6) no certified visibility
7) no certified precipitation measurement
8) no certified precipitation discriminator
9) no certified ceiling measurement
10) no certified lightning detection

Fortunately, DigiWX is a more economically priced
alternative to the very expensive SuperAWOS!

And there is a greater likelihood (albeit not in
your lifetime) that Belfort will eventually after
a very long time add more certified sensors to
the DigiWX.

Don't count on SuperAWOS adding any. And if they
do, they will be priced like the rest of their
system and too costly for the average airport to buy!

With that said, SuperAWOS and DigiWX have added
some other AWOS choices for airports desiring weather,
but the choices being offered suffer from high costs
(in the case of SuperAWOS) and not enough reliable
weather sensors that the pilot community really needs!

I'd also applaud Belfort for moving to "mic clicks"
since the "voice activation" never seemed to work.
On the other hand, one can only hope that it is
better than the supposed "adaptive" technology being
peddled by SuperUnicom which is anything but adaptive!

IMO: the SuperAWOS folks just use a lot of choking
"smoke and mirrors" to sell their overpriced system.



Author: khan
Date: 8/13/2005 6:02:17 PM

Belfort Instruments moves like a tortoise does. They
can't seem to get out of their own way. As somebody
noted, Belfort *HAS* been around for a very long time
(~129 years), and they have a great company history to
talk about. Talk is cheap in this day and age. The
problem is they move like a 129 year old would be
expected to move. Belfort seemed to take *FOREVER* to
get their DigiWX approved by the FAA and after *ALL*
that wait, they only certified the dual barometer and
the visibility sensor (just like the SuperAWOS
product). So what they have in essence is the
equivalent of an AWOS II. Who wants an AWOS II in this
day and age of AWOS III and AWOS III P/T? DigiWX (nor
SuperAWOS) just don't cut it! There is talk of Belfort
adding a ceilometer - how long will it take to get
that certified? You could grow a lot of gray hair
*WAITING* for Belfort if they ever deliver. One final
note: The data from DigiWX and SuperAWOS is not
eligible for inclusion in the NADIN network. So good
luck finding their weather data when you really need
it!!!



Author: khan
Date: 8/14/2005 8:39:05 AM

When one compares the acquisition price of an AWOS II
from DigiWX (please *NOTE* that SuperAWOS costs approx
$25K more than the DigiWX), one will see that it
compares very favorably with the price of an AWOS II
purchased from either Vaisala or All Weather Inc. If
you later decide to upgrade your AWOS II, at least you
can upgrade it if you have a Vaisala or AWI. But if
you hope to upgrade your DigiWX (and god forbid your
SuperAWOS) anytime soon - GOOD LUCK! One final note,
the acquisition price of the AWOS II from SuperUnicom
is ~$65K. For this price, you could buy an AWOS III
(and maybe even an AWOS III P/T) from either Vaisala
or All Weather Inc. Something to think about, huh?



Author: sammy
Date: 8/15/2005 4:14:03 PM

Wasn't there a post here a couple of days ago (that
was possibly deleted by the webmaster) talking about
how the SuperAWOS people were "blowing smoke" where
quarterly calibrations of an AWOS are concerned? I can
tell you that the SuperUnicom people told us flat out
that no calibration is required, yet this is simply
not true. There is a FAA 150 series advisory circular
that describes the quarterly calibration required for
all AWOS including the SuperAWOS. So when the
SuperUnciome people come piping that their AWOS is
immune to this, just tell them to take a long walk
down a short pier because you know better!



Author:
Date: 8/19/2005 9:47:29 AM

Here is reference to the FAA discussions between Mark
Beisse (***@faa.gov) with David Wartofsky
regarding quarterly/annual calibration of all AWOS
(including SuperAWOS):

Federal Aviation Administration...
David, we discussed with Claude Jones today the
SuperUnicom automated weather observing system
approval as certified under Advisory Circular
150/5220-16C...

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=3Dcache:o5_0c-GDpUUJ:www.superawos.com/aip.h=
tm+150/5220-16C&hl=3Den



Author:
Date: 8/19/2005 10:13:15 AM

AWOS calibration/inspections are covered in:

FAA Order 6700.200
FAA Advisory Circular 150/5220-16C

The SuperAWOS people won't tell you this, I just did!



Author: Christopher P.
Date: 8/19/2005 12:13:41 PM

After reading thru this long thread, I get the feeling
that there is a lot we just don't know about
SuperUnicom. And not a whole lot more about DigiWx
either. There seems to be a lot of "lying, misleading
and blowing smoke" to quote a few people here. There
also seems to be a very compelling case more so
against the SuperAWOS versus the DigiWx system. I do
know the Belfort name. They have definitely been
around a long time! I don't know if this a good reason
to hence buy a DigiWx versus a SuperUnicom. DigiWx
does seem though to offer a lot of bang for the dollar
versus SuperAWOS. What is certain is that we need more
AWOS around the USA. I don't think I'd want a
SuperUnicom in my back yard, maybe somebody else's
given their propensity to be less than forthcoming (is
that another way of saying "don't lie, just tell the
truth"). Neither system seems capable of delivering
certified cloud base info which is necessary in
designating an alternate airport in case IFR
conditions prevent one from landing at their desired
location. I would also wager that an airport is really
not going to save that much money by buying a DigiWx
or SuperAWOS versus a Vaisala or All Weather Inc
weather station when all is said and done. That's my
two cents worth!



Author:
Date: 8/20/2005 9:06:50 AM

To follow-up on the last post:

The DigiWX and SuperAWOS systems both claim simplified
installation procedures. DigiWX says it takes 1 - 1/2
days to install their system while SuperAWOS claims 1
hour! I don't know if I'd want an AWOS that installs
in 1 hour, how about you? Think about it, I don't know
anything that installs in 1 hour, and then works
consistently and reliably.

The DigiWX and SuperAWOS systems both claim simplified
calibration and annual inspection procedures. And yes,
as noted, the SuperAWOS requires quarterly and annual
inspections even though they quote a $0.00 figure;
this is misleading on SuperUnicom's part! Quarterly
and annual inspections of an AWOS are not an optional
exercise, and somebody has to visit the AWOS to
perform this service. Is your time worth something?
Since SuperAWOS assigns a $0.00 figure to
quarterly/annual inspections, they apparently don't
think a tech's time is worth anything either.

Now apparently, the SuperAWOS has a expedited
calibration process that requires less time in the
field at the AWOS. But considering all the blowing
smoke that has gotten into our eyes, I have to wonder
how "expedited" the calibration process really is
since they already assign a $0.00 value to the
technician who will have to perform this service.

SuperAWOS also claims their Unicom broadcasts are
automatically adaptive to decrease frequency
congestion. DigiWX says their Unicom broadcasts are
manually adaptive. DigiWX also claims to be the only
AWOS in the world that can transmit AWOS info on both
the Unicom frequency and a discrete VHF frequency.
That is something the SuperAWOS can't do!

So what is one getting in a SuperAWOS for paying a
$25K premium over the DigiWX system? It's a damn good
question!



Author:
Date: 8/22/2005 8:13:01 PM

It has been noted in this thread that Digiwx and
SuperUnicom offer some additional AWOS choices to the
marketplace versus the traditional AWOS manufacturers
(eg. AWI, Vaisala). While that may be true, it would
appear that the marketplace is not beating a path to
SuperUnicom's door as they have been around for 12-13
years and only sold a mere 40 systems or so (which
averages to ~3 per year). Digiwx has done somewhat
better with 40 systems sold in the past 4-5 years
(which averages to ~8 per year). If Digiwx and
SuperAWOS were the best thing since sliced bread, one
would think they would have sold more systems to date.

Considering that Digiwx (and SuperAWOS) are nothing
more than a glorified AWOS II, why would airports be
interested in these non-scalable weather stations when
most AWOS's sold today by AWI and Vaisala offer much
more like ceiling info, precipitation, present weather
and in some cases lightning detection. One cannot get
these additional sensor options on either a Digiwx or
a SuperAWOS. At least the Digiwx is priced right about
where an AWOS II should be but this is simply not the
case where SuperAWOS is concerned as it costs about
$25,000 more!

David Wartofsky (of SuperUnicom fame) claims in his
sales bunk that ceiling info is not required by most
pilots. I'd like to meet the pilots (all 2 or 3 of
them) who would not like to have ceiling info on
either a VFR or IFR flight. One might not really need
it, but I would wager that most pilots would prefer to
have it versus not being able to have it at all if you
buy a SuperAWOS.

Lesson for Belfort: Get your ceilometer to market
PRONTO!



Author:
Date: 9/9/2005 9:25:19 PM

I can tell you that Belfort doesn't do anything
pronto, so don't count on a certified ceilometer
anytime soon.

On the other hand, I heard about this topic when I say
a note posted on a local airport bulletin board. I
couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the amazing and
incredible irrationalizations from D. Wartofsy and G.
Loff.

When I got back home, I later visited www.google.com
and entered "superawos" and I couldn't believe the
tally of results that popped up. Forget about "10
reasons to NOT buy a SuperUnicom," I must have 10
times "10 reasons to NOT buy a SuperUnicom."

I think that's all I need and want to know about
SuperAWOS!

Go DigiWx!



Author:
Date: 9/9/2005 9:42:30 PM

"I must have seen 10 times "10 reasons to NOT buy a
SuperUnicom."



Author: tony
Date: 9/16/2005 8:57:44 PM

trust me on this one. if superunicom (superawos) comes
calling or knocking on your door, run (don't walk) in
the opposite direction!



Author: gimesh
Date:

I called and talked with Gary Loff of Superunicom.
He's very negative about the digiwx product. Belfort
must be giving Superunicom a run for there money.
ANyway, I wanted to learn where a superunicom might be
near me so I could fly there and check it out. Well
Gary Loff just flat out refused to give me a user. Not
even one! I can't believe these people. why would you
guard a user's list? if you have a great product, then
you tell people about it! and people want to know
about it. I guess the superunicom product must not be
so great then! I would wager the superunicome people
have probably only placed two: at opposite ends of the
runway at Potomac airfield! I think i'll go see the
digiwx in Driggs, ID.

I give a thumbs down to superunicom for a s*****
attitude!



Author:
Date: 9/22/2005 5:04:36 PM

well they have a few more installations than two but
not that many more. i don=B4t know how anyone (including
the FAA AIP perople) could rationalize spending $67K
for an AWOS II. the prices of awos should be dropping
like the prices of personal computers. not so with the
superawos product. ugggh!



Author: dilly dally
Date: 9/23/2005 9:48:46 PM

why is the FAA spending $67K for superawos in montana
when you could buy a friggin AWOS III P/T for about
the same amount? who did superawos get into bed with?

the faa?
the engineering firm?
the airport manager pant's?

$67K is a lot of money to buy people/firms off with!



Author: robert
Date: 9/25/2005 8:49:39 AM

Those are some great questions (ie. did SuperAWOS buy
off the FAA, the engineering firms or the airport
manager)?

Do you have any proof that this actually happened?

Granted, prima facia evidence like this would be very
incriminatory and probably very hard to come by!

I've heard some disconcerting things, as well, about
SuperUnicom and the way they do business but we need
more than rumor. Granted where there is smoke, there
is fire!



Author:
Date: 10/6/2005 3:20:22 PM

there isn't just a fire, there is a blaze out of
control!



Author: gregory dunn
Date: 10/6/2005 9:46:11 PM

digiwx offers so much more bang for the dollar (versus
superawos) that there is no further comparison
necessay.

digiwx offers a lobby display for viewing in an fbo
while superawos offers nothing

digiwx offers live real-time updates minute by minute
over the web versus just hourly updates from superawos

digiwx offers wx broadcasts over both unicom and a
discreet frequency; superawos can only broadcast over
unicom

digiwx is working on adding a ceilometer; where will
superawos get a ceilometer to add to their wx station?

digiwx is approx $20-25K lower priced than the
superawos

digiwx has been around for over a century; superawos
has been around about 1/10 this time

digiwx made sensors for asos before building an awos;
superawos doesn't make any sensors themselves, they
buy them elsewhere and pass along these costs to you

superawos is less than forthcoming about the
voluminous digiwx installed customer base

superawos is less than forthcoming when they say their
superawos doesn't require any maintenance. the faa did
not give them a pass on this. maintenance, calibration
and quarterly inspections are required; superawos
won't tell you this, i just did!

there is a superior product: digiwx

and there is an inferior product: wanta guess which
one?



Author:
Date: 10/10/2005 6:21:24 AM

Anyone who has managed to read through this rather
destructive name bashing thread might wish to consider
whether the above comments are truly neutral and
representative of the user experience or are done with
other less noble intentions.

I truly hope that anyone who is considering the use of
automated equipment would contact the four companies
listed and make their own decision after having
demonstrations of the various equipment available and
considering the circumstances that are particularly
important to the particular airfield.

I personally would suggest that Belfort, Potomac,
Vaisala and AWI are responsible organisations trying
to support the aviation community each with a
different solution.

No one is being served by one or more individuals
desire to damage the reputations of these companies,
whatever reason they may have. It is unfortunate that
a useful technology which forums like this represent
are actually being used to bring about the disrepute
of these companies for whatever personal or commercial
reasons. The fervour that is shown in particular
towards both companies (Belfort and Potomac) is an
indication that the individual(s) are not acting in
the best interests of the community but rather to
ensure that the search engines reflect their ability
to cross post their comments.



Author:
Date: 10/18/2005 6:53:09 AM

I couldn't disagree more with the previous poster's
comments. Before the advent of Belfort's DigiWx or
Potomac Aviation Tech's SuperUnicom, there was Vaisala
and All Weather Inc who produced most all AWOSs
installed in the USA. Things became more complex when
DigiWx and SuperAWOS both received FAA Approval in
June 2004. Neither system has lived up to the
expectations advertised by either vendor. Both vendors
have been unable to deliver everything promised; both
are working to improve things. But one particular
vendor has been more unscrupulous and disingenuous
than the other. One is more worthy of your business
than the other. I'll leave it to the viewing audience
to ascertain which vendor that might be.



Author:
Date: 10/18/2005 7:03:07 AM

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dcpilots/message/3282

From: "Joe Della Barba"
Date: Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:21 am
Subject: Super Unicom at VKX ***@...

When I was instructing out of VKX we HATED that thing!
Imagine hearing it 24/7/365!

Joe



Author:
Date: 10/18/2005 7:07:17 AM

This thread may have got it starts at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dcpilots/message/3275

From: Stan Fetter
Date: Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:15 pm
Subject: Re: [dcpilots] "digi bravo" what? s10399
The infamous Super Unicom at Potomac is the other
end
of the spectrum; it broadcasts all the time in the
blind every time it hears traffic on the frequency.
Stan that's not true. The Super Unicom only
'responds'
to a pilot query which are three or four mic clicks
made in the same way a pilot makes those clicks to
turn on runway lights.
That is absolute, total bunk. It may be that during
times of lots of activity it shuts up, but time and
time again (three times today) somebody comes into the
pattern at Hyde, calls in for an advisory, and the
answer gets stepped on by the "Potomac Airfield,
automated unicom...click three times for
advisory...etc."

We run into this particularly in the early morning
when the traffic planes go out. Once somebody gets
airborne, many times there's a need for that plane to
pass something along to the next one who is probably
still on the ground. EVERY TIME, the response from the
plane on the ground is stepped on by a pop-up from the
box [SuperUnicom] at Potomac because it's simply
responding to the presence of radio traffic on the
frequency.

I have asked David [Wartofsky] again and again to set
it so it doesn't make the blind transmissions and
speaks only in response to the clicks. He keeps saying
he's doing it, and he never does.

I know this happens, because (1) the pilot coming in
invariably says "say again, you got stepped on by the
"automated box" or something to that effect and (2) I
can hear in most of the time on the base station
in the office.
When two airports are as close together as Hyde and
Potomac, there will always be steppings on whether
they be from a human or a machine.
The difference is that a human can tell when somebody
says "Hyde" or "Potomac" and is smart enough to shut
up when an inbound is calling the other airport. Until
the box [SuperAWOS] gains that ability to reason, it
needs to
stifle.
As I travel around the country, I often wish there
were
more SuperUnicoms out there because 90% of the times
it
seems what there is out there is, well, nothing.
We're just going to have to disagree on this one. I
spend upwards of 70 hours a week at that airport, and
I'm not hiding behind a desk. I see this all the time,
and I get continuous complaints on it. David keeps
promising to take care of it but doesn't and his other
half in Boston doesn't care. If he would set it so it
speaks only when spoken to that would be fine, but he
hasn't and in the current configuration I think it's a
hazard and a piece of crap.

Don't get me wrong...it's a neat box and when I was
based at Potomac I liked it although I got irritated
by the pop-up transmissions then too. (My wife's sign
shop made the little decals of the duck on the beach
chair.) But, it's got to be applied in moderation and
on that point he's missed the mark.

End of rant...I'll go take my pills now.

sbf
Charles A. Fazio
President & Executive Producer
Vision Creative LLc
'Cool People, Creating Cool Stuff for Cool Clients.
You In?'



Author:
Date: 10/18/2005 7:21:28 AM

From: AJ Maltenfort
Date: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: [dcpilots] Re: Super Unicom ...
maltena100

May have written earlier about the "Super Unicom" at
Princeton NJ that does a radio check for you. Click
the mike 5 times and it spits back to you what you
just said. Except I'm on downwind about to turn base
when some a*sh*le clicks the mike 5 times (something I
didn't know about at the time). I go ahead and call my
base and am approaching final when the d*mned Stuper
Unicom says "base, runway 28, Princeton." My head is
on a swivel. Nobody had announced they were in the
pattern behind me, so I'm wondering if someone is
making right traffic (which I had heard about 5 miles
out). I announce that I am on base, describe myself as
a green and white Mooney, and ask if I need to go
around because I can't find this other plane. Then a
real live person from the fbo chuckles that the super
unicom just spit back my radio call...



Author:
Date: 10/19/2005 7:16:19 AM

Imagine this....

A cool exciting new aviation weather product that:

1) claims to be adaptive but ISN'T
2) doesn't enhance safety of flight operations
3) has a radio check feature that doesn't shut up
4) ties up your unicom frequency when you need it most
5) has been characterized as "a hazard and a piece of
crap"
6) the manufacturer (Potomac Aviation Technology)
promises
to fix the on-going complaints and then does NOTHING!

You TOO can have one.... it's called SuperAWOS



Author: - E-Mail Address
Date: 10/21/2005 2:49:17 PM

Well, the same things could be voiced about Belfort's
Digiwx system which now uses "mic clicks" versus
Digiwx voice-recognition which was a miserable and
total failure. You can find the remnants of that
complete failure at Ocean City, NJ; Driggs ID and
Huntington, UT. Chiefly, Digiwx:

1) claims to be adaptive but ISN'T
2) doesn't enhance safety of flight operations
3) has a radio check feature that no one can activate
4) ties up your unicom frequency when you need it most
5) has been characterized as "a hazard and a piece of
crap"
6) the manufacturer (Belfort) promises to fix the
on-going complaints and then does NOTHING!

And regarding which company is unscrupulous and
disingenous, I hereby nominate and proclaim Belfort
Instruments as that company. Belfort has been sporting
Digiwx tee-shirts which claim "The Wright Brothers
Relied On Us." Other than Belfort's wild assertion,
there is no written record to document this alleged
fact.

None, nadda, didn't happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In fact, the Wright Brothers wrote extensively about
using a Richard's handheld anemometer which was
French-made; not American made as Belfort would have
you believe. Visit http://www.google.com and search
for "Richard's anemometer" and see for yourself.

Digiwx does offer a cheaper price for an AWOS but be
forewarned, you get what you pay for.

Buy CRAP and you'll have CRAP!
Vaughn
2005-11-05 01:26:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by awos
Not soooo SuperAWOS
You posted this crap once and that was quite enough. <plonk>

Vaughn
awos
2005-11-05 19:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Amazing what a little investigative research turns up.
Yes it certainly is!

Location: United States [City: Kansas City, Missouri]


Looking up 67.48.112.218 at whois.radb.net.


NOTE: More information appears to be available at AS11955.


Using 0 day old cached answer (or, you can get fresh results).
Hiding E-mail address (you can get results with the E-mail address).


route: 67.48.96.0/19
descr: RR-Route
origin: AS11955
notify: ********@rr.com
mnt-by: MAINT-RR
changed: ********@rr.com 20040930
source: RADB


route: 67.48.96.0/19
descr: Telocity
origin: AS12050
mnt-by: MACHONE-MNT
changed: ****@bb.directv.com 20021101
source: LEVEL3


route: 67.48.96.0/19
descr: CHI-KCY
origin: AS11955
mnt-by: MAINT-AS-AOL
changed: ***********@aol.net 20040930
source: AOLTW


WHICH RESOLVES TO:


aut-num: AS11955
as-name: RoadRunner
descr: RR-KansasCity
import: from AS-ANY accept ANY
export: to AS-ANY announce AS-ROADRUNNER
admin-c: IPADDREG
tech-c: IPADDREG
notify: ***@rr.com
mnt-by: MAINT-RR
changed: ***@rr.com 20031017
source: RADB


aut-num: AS11955
as-name: RoadRunner
descr: AOLTW-RR
admin-c: Road Runner NOC
tech-c: Road Runner NOC
mnt-by: MAINT-AS-AOL
changed: ***@aol.com (20010917)


Next time you get a chance, call Belfort and ask how things are going!


They are laying off employees!


WHY?


Becase they are in red ink!


WHY ARE THEY IN RED INK?


They're selling crappy products and people are going elsewhere?


WHAT KIND OF CRAPPY PRODUCTS?


You can start with DigiWx AWOS for starters!


AND?


DigiWx AWOS was approved in June 2004. To date, maybe 5-6 have
been installed but none have been inspected or licensed by the FAA.


SO THEY HAVE NOT COMMISSIONED A SINGLE DIGIWX AWOS!


Bingo!


SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT ONE!


You don't really, just be like Moriarty, Belen and Sandia airports in
New Mexico and get Belfort to sponsor a 3,4,5 year demo! This way
you don't have to pay for this DigiWx AWOS CRAP!


Meanwhile, read this:


http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm
awos
2005-11-08 15:09:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by awos
Next time you get a chance, call Belfort and ask how things are going!
They are laying off employees!
WHY?
Becase they are in red ink!
WHY ARE THEY IN RED INK?
They're selling crappy products and people are going elsewhere?
WHAT KIND OF CRAPPY PRODUCTS?
You can start with DigiWx AWOS for starters!
AND?
DigiWx AWOS was approved in June 2004. To date, maybe 5-6 have
been installed but none have been inspected or licensed by the FAA.
SO THEY HAVE NOT COMMISSIONED A SINGLE DIGIWX AWOS!
Bingo!
SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT ONE!
You don't really, just be like Moriarty, Belen and Sandia airports in
New Mexico and get Belfort to sponsor a 3,4,5 year demo! This way
you don't have to pay for this DigiWx AWOS CRAP!
All is not what it appears, look at all these non-sale DEMOS:

Baltimore Marine Center (BALTM), Baltimore, Maryland - DEMO
Belen Alexander Airport (E80), Belen, New Mexico - DEMO
Bradford County Airport (N27), Towanda, Pennsylvania - DEMO
Buckeye Airport (BXK), Buckeye, Arizona - DEMO
Christoph Murnau Hospital (MURNA), Murnau, Germany - DEMO
Coral Creek Airport (FA54), Placida, FL (live web cam)
Darke County Airport (KVES), Midmark Corporation, Versailles, Ohio
Easton Airport (ESN), Easton, Maryland - DEMO
First Flight Airfield (FFA), Kitty Hawk, North Carolina - DEMO
Greenville Airport (GRE), Greenville, Illinois
Greystone Airport (17FL), Ocala, Florida - DEMO
Huntington Airport (69V), Huntington, Utah
Lake In The Hills (3CK), Lake In The Hills, Illinois
Ledgedale Airport (7G0), Brockport, New York - DEMO
Lee Airport (ANP), Annapolis, Maryland - DEMO
McKinney Municipal Airport (TKI), McKinney, Texas
Monticello Airport (U43), Monticello, Utah
Moriarty Airport (0E0), Moriarty, New Mexico - DEMO
New Kent County Airport (W96), Quinton, Virginia - DEMO
Ocean City Airport (26N), Ocean City, New Jersey
Palomar Airport (CRQ), Civic Helicopters, Carlsbad, California - DEMO
San Salvador (ZSJ), Nassau, Bahamas - DEMO
Samedan Heliport (SAMED), San Salvador, El Salvador
Sandia Airpark (1N1), Edgewood, New Mexico (live web cam) - DEMO
Sierra Star Industries (TAHOE), Lake Tahoe, Nevada
Small Aircraft Transportation System (RTII), Richmond, Virginia - DEMO
Stokes Flying Service (STOKE), Earle, Arkansas - DEMO
United States Air Force (INS1E, INS2W, INS3N), Indian Springs, Nevada
United States Air Force (KFFO, KFFO2, KFFO3), Wright Patterson, Ohio
United States Army (R29), Ft. Campbell, Kentucky - DEMO
United States Border Patrol (TTOP), El Centro, California
United States Coast Guard (CGCC), Baltimore, Maryland - DEMO
United States Coast Guard (PTARE), Point Arena, California
University of Maryland Shock Trauma Center (HMIEM), Baltimore, Maryland
- DEMO
Washington Executive Airport (W32), Clinton, Maryland
West Chester Wastewater Treatment Plant (WCWTP), Peekskill, New York -
DEMO
William T. Piper Memorial Airport (LHV), Lock Haven, Pennsylvania
Post by awos
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm
d***@merseymail.com
2005-11-27 05:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Yes, it appears that you are in fact correct! All is not as it
appears. I'd like to hear Belfort's response to all of these demo
units!

Thanks for letting us know. Now, the industry is informed, as we
should be!
Post by awos
Post by awos
Next time you get a chance, call Belfort and ask how things are going!
They are laying off employees!
WHY?
Becase they are in red ink!
WHY ARE THEY IN RED INK?
They're selling crappy products and people are going elsewhere?
WHAT KIND OF CRAPPY PRODUCTS?
You can start with DigiWx AWOS for starters!
AND?
DigiWx AWOS was approved in June 2004. To date, maybe 5-6 have
been installed but none have been inspected or licensed by the FAA.
SO THEY HAVE NOT COMMISSIONED A SINGLE DIGIWX AWOS!
Bingo!
SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT ONE!
You don't really, just be like Moriarty, Belen and Sandia airports in
New Mexico and get Belfort to sponsor a 3,4,5 year demo! This way
you don't have to pay for this DigiWx AWOS CRAP!
Baltimore Marine Center (BALTM), Baltimore, Maryland - DEMO
Belen Alexander Airport (E80), Belen, New Mexico - DEMO
Bradford County Airport (N27), Towanda, Pennsylvania - DEMO
Buckeye Airport (BXK), Buckeye, Arizona - DEMO
Christoph Murnau Hospital (MURNA), Murnau, Germany - DEMO
Coral Creek Airport (FA54), Placida, FL (live web cam)
Darke County Airport (KVES), Midmark Corporation, Versailles, Ohio
Easton Airport (ESN), Easton, Maryland - DEMO
First Flight Airfield (FFA), Kitty Hawk, North Carolina - DEMO
Greenville Airport (GRE), Greenville, Illinois
Greystone Airport (17FL), Ocala, Florida - DEMO
Huntington Airport (69V), Huntington, Utah
Lake In The Hills (3CK), Lake In The Hills, Illinois
Ledgedale Airport (7G0), Brockport, New York - DEMO
Lee Airport (ANP), Annapolis, Maryland - DEMO
McKinney Municipal Airport (TKI), McKinney, Texas
Monticello Airport (U43), Monticello, Utah
Moriarty Airport (0E0), Moriarty, New Mexico - DEMO
New Kent County Airport (W96), Quinton, Virginia - DEMO
Ocean City Airport (26N), Ocean City, New Jersey
Palomar Airport (CRQ), Civic Helicopters, Carlsbad, California - DEMO
San Salvador (ZSJ), Nassau, Bahamas - DEMO
Samedan Heliport (SAMED), San Salvador, El Salvador
Sandia Airpark (1N1), Edgewood, New Mexico (live web cam) - DEMO
Sierra Star Industries (TAHOE), Lake Tahoe, Nevada
Small Aircraft Transportation System (RTII), Richmond, Virginia - DEMO
Stokes Flying Service (STOKE), Earle, Arkansas - DEMO
United States Air Force (INS1E, INS2W, INS3N), Indian Springs, Nevada
United States Air Force (KFFO, KFFO2, KFFO3), Wright Patterson, Ohio
United States Army (R29), Ft. Campbell, Kentucky - DEMO
United States Border Patrol (TTOP), El Centro, California
United States Coast Guard (CGCC), Baltimore, Maryland - DEMO
United States Coast Guard (PTARE), Point Arena, California
University of Maryland Shock Trauma Center (HMIEM), Baltimore, Maryland
- DEMO
Washington Executive Airport (W32), Clinton, Maryland
West Chester Wastewater Treatment Plant (WCWTP), Peekskill, New York -
DEMO
William T. Piper Memorial Airport (LHV), Lock Haven, Pennsylvania
Post by awos
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm
Lakeview Bill
2005-11-27 14:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Dude...have you never heard of LIBEL?

You are pushing dangerously close to it with these posts.

If you want to continue to demonstrate what a moron you are, knock yourself
out. But you'd better plan on doing it with empty pockets...
Post by d***@merseymail.com
Yes, it appears that you are in fact correct! All is not as it
appears. I'd like to hear Belfort's response to all of these demo
units!
Thanks for letting us know. Now, the industry is informed, as we
should be!
Post by awos
Post by awos
Next time you get a chance, call Belfort and ask how things are going!
They are laying off employees!
WHY?
Becase they are in red ink!
WHY ARE THEY IN RED INK?
They're selling crappy products and people are going elsewhere?
WHAT KIND OF CRAPPY PRODUCTS?
You can start with DigiWx AWOS for starters!
AND?
DigiWx AWOS was approved in June 2004. To date, maybe 5-6 have
been installed but none have been inspected or licensed by the FAA.
SO THEY HAVE NOT COMMISSIONED A SINGLE DIGIWX AWOS!
Bingo!
SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT ONE!
You don't really, just be like Moriarty, Belen and Sandia airports in
New Mexico and get Belfort to sponsor a 3,4,5 year demo! This way
you don't have to pay for this DigiWx AWOS CRAP!
Baltimore Marine Center (BALTM), Baltimore, Maryland - DEMO
Belen Alexander Airport (E80), Belen, New Mexico - DEMO
Bradford County Airport (N27), Towanda, Pennsylvania - DEMO
Buckeye Airport (BXK), Buckeye, Arizona - DEMO
Christoph Murnau Hospital (MURNA), Murnau, Germany - DEMO
Coral Creek Airport (FA54), Placida, FL (live web cam)
Darke County Airport (KVES), Midmark Corporation, Versailles, Ohio
Easton Airport (ESN), Easton, Maryland - DEMO
First Flight Airfield (FFA), Kitty Hawk, North Carolina - DEMO
Greenville Airport (GRE), Greenville, Illinois
Greystone Airport (17FL), Ocala, Florida - DEMO
Huntington Airport (69V), Huntington, Utah
Lake In The Hills (3CK), Lake In The Hills, Illinois
Ledgedale Airport (7G0), Brockport, New York - DEMO
Lee Airport (ANP), Annapolis, Maryland - DEMO
McKinney Municipal Airport (TKI), McKinney, Texas
Monticello Airport (U43), Monticello, Utah
Moriarty Airport (0E0), Moriarty, New Mexico - DEMO
New Kent County Airport (W96), Quinton, Virginia - DEMO
Ocean City Airport (26N), Ocean City, New Jersey
Palomar Airport (CRQ), Civic Helicopters, Carlsbad, California - DEMO
San Salvador (ZSJ), Nassau, Bahamas - DEMO
Samedan Heliport (SAMED), San Salvador, El Salvador
Sandia Airpark (1N1), Edgewood, New Mexico (live web cam) - DEMO
Sierra Star Industries (TAHOE), Lake Tahoe, Nevada
Small Aircraft Transportation System (RTII), Richmond, Virginia - DEMO
Stokes Flying Service (STOKE), Earle, Arkansas - DEMO
United States Air Force (INS1E, INS2W, INS3N), Indian Springs, Nevada
United States Air Force (KFFO, KFFO2, KFFO3), Wright Patterson, Ohio
United States Army (R29), Ft. Campbell, Kentucky - DEMO
United States Border Patrol (TTOP), El Centro, California
United States Coast Guard (CGCC), Baltimore, Maryland - DEMO
United States Coast Guard (PTARE), Point Arena, California
University of Maryland Shock Trauma Center (HMIEM), Baltimore, Maryland
- DEMO
Washington Executive Airport (W32), Clinton, Maryland
West Chester Wastewater Treatment Plant (WCWTP), Peekskill, New York -
DEMO
William T. Piper Memorial Airport (LHV), Lock Haven, Pennsylvania
Post by awos
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm
d***@merseymail.com
2005-11-29 02:08:24 UTC
Permalink
Dude, have you ever heard of "harassment" and "threating someone"?

I would suggest that you craw back in your moneyless hole and find
someone else to harass since you cannot do anything and you know this.

I have the right and freedom to express my opinions though you may not
agree! If you do not like it, TOUGH! Obviously, you work in some
capacity for that great company Belfort Instruments! Well, let me tell
you that from what I know and have heard, the information expressed by
all at this site, including my opinion are factually accurate.

Maybe this is why your comapny SUCKS, because of individuals like
yourself believing that they control others and their opinions!

If you harass me again, I shall instruct my attorney to file a
multi-million dollar lawsuit against your company that shall tie up
every available resource your company has! Now, try me!

If you do not like what people post about your company, maybe you
should change your deplorable practices! From what I have read and
heard, your company doesn't even deserve to be in business! In my
opinion, you operate in a manner which is inciting, and self serving
which is not in the public interest!

Rather than threaten individuals who are freely exchanging ideas of
expression, maybe you could offer something positive! Or, maybe just
what has been posted is the truth! Where have you offered something
which counters or which is contrary to what people post here ... where
is it! Maybe all of it is true, and you feel you can shut people up
about it! Well, I am one person who is NOT going away! I have the
right to express what I feel, what I believe, and my opinions! IF YOU
WANT TO CENSOR THE PRESS, GO LIVE IN THE SOVIET UNION!

Now, climb back in your hole, and leave me alone or I'll empty what
remains in your corporate coffers!
Post by Lakeview Bill
Dude...have you never heard of LIBEL?
You are pushing dangerously close to it with these posts.
If you want to continue to demonstrate what a moron you are, knock yourself
out. But you'd better plan on doing it with empty pockets...
Post by d***@merseymail.com
Yes, it appears that you are in fact correct! All is not as it
appears. I'd like to hear Belfort's response to all of these demo
units!
Thanks for letting us know. Now, the industry is informed, as we
should be!
Post by awos
Post by awos
Next time you get a chance, call Belfort and ask how things are going!
They are laying off employees!
WHY?
Becase they are in red ink!
WHY ARE THEY IN RED INK?
They're selling crappy products and people are going elsewhere?
WHAT KIND OF CRAPPY PRODUCTS?
You can start with DigiWx AWOS for starters!
AND?
DigiWx AWOS was approved in June 2004. To date, maybe 5-6 have
been installed but none have been inspected or licensed by the FAA.
SO THEY HAVE NOT COMMISSIONED A SINGLE DIGIWX AWOS!
Bingo!
SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT ONE!
You don't really, just be like Moriarty, Belen and Sandia airports in
New Mexico and get Belfort to sponsor a 3,4,5 year demo! This way
you don't have to pay for this DigiWx AWOS CRAP!
Baltimore Marine Center (BALTM), Baltimore, Maryland - DEMO
Belen Alexander Airport (E80), Belen, New Mexico - DEMO
Bradford County Airport (N27), Towanda, Pennsylvania - DEMO
Buckeye Airport (BXK), Buckeye, Arizona - DEMO
Christoph Murnau Hospital (MURNA), Murnau, Germany - DEMO
Coral Creek Airport (FA54), Placida, FL (live web cam)
Darke County Airport (KVES), Midmark Corporation, Versailles, Ohio
Easton Airport (ESN), Easton, Maryland - DEMO
First Flight Airfield (FFA), Kitty Hawk, North Carolina - DEMO
Greenville Airport (GRE), Greenville, Illinois
Greystone Airport (17FL), Ocala, Florida - DEMO
Huntington Airport (69V), Huntington, Utah
Lake In The Hills (3CK), Lake In The Hills, Illinois
Ledgedale Airport (7G0), Brockport, New York - DEMO
Lee Airport (ANP), Annapolis, Maryland - DEMO
McKinney Municipal Airport (TKI), McKinney, Texas
Monticello Airport (U43), Monticello, Utah
Moriarty Airport (0E0), Moriarty, New Mexico - DEMO
New Kent County Airport (W96), Quinton, Virginia - DEMO
Ocean City Airport (26N), Ocean City, New Jersey
Palomar Airport (CRQ), Civic Helicopters, Carlsbad, California - DEMO
San Salvador (ZSJ), Nassau, Bahamas - DEMO
Samedan Heliport (SAMED), San Salvador, El Salvador
Sandia Airpark (1N1), Edgewood, New Mexico (live web cam) - DEMO
Sierra Star Industries (TAHOE), Lake Tahoe, Nevada
Small Aircraft Transportation System (RTII), Richmond, Virginia - DEMO
Stokes Flying Service (STOKE), Earle, Arkansas - DEMO
United States Air Force (INS1E, INS2W, INS3N), Indian Springs, Nevada
United States Air Force (KFFO, KFFO2, KFFO3), Wright Patterson, Ohio
United States Army (R29), Ft. Campbell, Kentucky - DEMO
United States Border Patrol (TTOP), El Centro, California
United States Coast Guard (CGCC), Baltimore, Maryland - DEMO
United States Coast Guard (PTARE), Point Arena, California
University of Maryland Shock Trauma Center (HMIEM), Baltimore, Maryland
- DEMO
Washington Executive Airport (W32), Clinton, Maryland
West Chester Wastewater Treatment Plant (WCWTP), Peekskill, New York -
DEMO
William T. Piper Memorial Airport (LHV), Lock Haven, Pennsylvania
Post by awos
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm
Pastor Pants
2005-11-29 09:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@merseymail.com
Dude, have you ever heard of "harassment" and "threating someone"?
I would suggest that you craw back in your moneyless hole and find
someone else to harass since you cannot do anything and you know this.
I have the right and freedom to express my opinions though you may not
agree! If you do not like it, TOUGH! Obviously, you work in some
capacity for that great company Belfort Instruments! Well, let me
tell you that from what I know and have heard, the information
expressed by all at this site, including my opinion are factually
accurate.
Maybe this is why your comapny SUCKS, because of individuals like
yourself believing that they control others and their opinions!
If you harass me again, I shall instruct my attorney to file a
multi-million dollar lawsuit against your company that shall tie up
every available resource your company has! Now, try me!
If you do not like what people post about your company, maybe you
should change your deplorable practices! From what I have read and
heard, your company doesn't even deserve to be in business! In my
opinion, you operate in a manner which is inciting, and self serving
which is not in the public interest!
Rather than threaten individuals who are freely exchanging ideas of
expression, maybe you could offer something positive! Or, maybe just
what has been posted is the truth! Where have you offered something
which counters or which is contrary to what people post here ... where
is it! Maybe all of it is true, and you feel you can shut people up
about it! Well, I am one person who is NOT going away! I have the
right to express what I feel, what I believe, and my opinions! IF YOU
WANT TO CENSOR THE PRESS, GO LIVE IN THE SOVIET UNION!
Now, climb back in your hole, and leave me alone or I'll empty what
remains in your corporate coffers!
Post by Lakeview Bill
Dude...have you never heard of LIBEL?
You are pushing dangerously close to it with these posts.
If you want to continue to demonstrate what a moron you are, knock
yourself out. But you'd better plan on doing it with empty pockets...
Post by d***@merseymail.com
Yes, it appears that you are in fact correct! All is not as it
appears. I'd like to hear Belfort's response to all of these demo
units!
Thanks for letting us know. Now, the industry is informed, as we
should be!
Post by awos
Post by awos
Next time you get a chance, call Belfort and ask how things are going!
They are laying off employees!
WHY?
Becase they are in red ink!
WHY ARE THEY IN RED INK?
They're selling crappy products and people are going elsewhere?
WHAT KIND OF CRAPPY PRODUCTS?
You can start with DigiWx AWOS for starters!
AND?
DigiWx AWOS was approved in June 2004. To date, maybe 5-6 have
been installed but none have been inspected or licensed by the FAA.
SO THEY HAVE NOT COMMISSIONED A SINGLE DIGIWX AWOS!
Bingo!
SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT ONE!
You don't really, just be like Moriarty, Belen and Sandia
airports in New Mexico and get Belfort to sponsor a 3,4,5 year
demo! This way you don't have to pay for this DigiWx AWOS CRAP!
Baltimore Marine Center (BALTM), Baltimore, Maryland - DEMO
Belen Alexander Airport (E80), Belen, New Mexico - DEMO
Bradford County Airport (N27), Towanda, Pennsylvania - DEMO
Buckeye Airport (BXK), Buckeye, Arizona - DEMO
Christoph Murnau Hospital (MURNA), Murnau, Germany - DEMO
Coral Creek Airport (FA54), Placida, FL (live web cam)
Darke County Airport (KVES), Midmark Corporation, Versailles,
Ohio Easton Airport (ESN), Easton, Maryland - DEMO
First Flight Airfield (FFA), Kitty Hawk, North Carolina - DEMO
Greenville Airport (GRE), Greenville, Illinois
Greystone Airport (17FL), Ocala, Florida - DEMO
Huntington Airport (69V), Huntington, Utah
Lake In The Hills (3CK), Lake In The Hills, Illinois
Ledgedale Airport (7G0), Brockport, New York - DEMO
Lee Airport (ANP), Annapolis, Maryland - DEMO
McKinney Municipal Airport (TKI), McKinney, Texas
Monticello Airport (U43), Monticello, Utah
Moriarty Airport (0E0), Moriarty, New Mexico - DEMO
New Kent County Airport (W96), Quinton, Virginia - DEMO
Ocean City Airport (26N), Ocean City, New Jersey
Palomar Airport (CRQ), Civic Helicopters, Carlsbad, California -
DEMO San Salvador (ZSJ), Nassau, Bahamas - DEMO
Samedan Heliport (SAMED), San Salvador, El Salvador
Sandia Airpark (1N1), Edgewood, New Mexico (live web cam) - DEMO
Sierra Star Industries (TAHOE), Lake Tahoe, Nevada
Small Aircraft Transportation System (RTII), Richmond, Virginia -
DEMO Stokes Flying Service (STOKE), Earle, Arkansas - DEMO
United States Air Force (INS1E, INS2W, INS3N), Indian Springs,
Nevada United States Air Force (KFFO, KFFO2, KFFO3), Wright
Patterson, Ohio United States Army (R29), Ft. Campbell, Kentucky
- DEMO United States Border Patrol (TTOP), El Centro, California
United States Coast Guard (CGCC), Baltimore, Maryland - DEMO
United States Coast Guard (PTARE), Point Arena, California
University of Maryland Shock Trauma Center (HMIEM), Baltimore,
Maryland - DEMO
Washington Executive Airport (W32), Clinton, Maryland
West Chester Wastewater Treatment Plant (WCWTP), Peekskill, New
York - DEMO
William T. Piper Memorial Airport (LHV), Lock Haven, Pennsylvania
Post by awos
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm
I think we have k00k potential here.
Aratzio
2005-11-29 14:05:23 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:48:49 GMT, Pastor Pants
<***@everyturn.net> transparently proposed:

<sneckage>
Post by Pastor Pants
I think we have k00k potential here.
K0ok s0ot is ALWAYS 100% full froth k0oky. I LURVE k0ok S0ot. Double
k0ok s0ot is like an early Christmas present.

Now, the question is, which k0ok will have the balls to actually file
first. Both have threatened, now one has to pull the rhetoric plug,
grow a set and haul ass (probably taking two trips) to the local
courts and file.

So those that know the k0oks involved care to give us (tinu) odss as
to which k0ok is the more likely to pony up the frequent k0ok points
and file?
--
Pierre Salinger Hook, Line & Sinker - May, 2005

Hammer of Thor - July, 2005

David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus) on 10-22-2005
Message-Id: <***@dformosa.zeta.org.au>

"But it is not isolated AUK has a massive impact the rest of usenet."

http://www.tweaknet.info/aratzio.html
Woody Pequre
2005-11-30 08:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:48:49 GMT, Pastor Pants
<sneckage>
Post by Pastor Pants
I think we have k00k potential here.
K0ok s0ot is ALWAYS 100% full froth k0oky. I LURVE k0ok S0ot. Double
k0ok s0ot is like an early Christmas present.
Now, the question is, which k0ok will have the balls to actually file
first. Both have threatened, now one has to pull the rhetoric plug,
grow a set and haul ass (probably taking two trips) to the local
courts and file.
So those that know the k0oks involved care to give us (tinu) odss as
to which k0ok is the more likely to pony up the frequent k0ok points
and file?
Uhm, neither one?
a***@okfrance.com
2005-12-01 03:12:03 UTC
Permalink
It appears from the posts here that someone has something to say about
this company Belfort Instruments to everyone in this group. It is also
appears that representatives of this company are posing as different
individuals trying to quell the posts as if they are nothing!
From what I have read, it seems as though this company has some major
problems which they need to address including how they act in public
arenas! Ids this some comapny representative acting this way ....
trying to shout over some damaging information which looks legitimate!

I do know one thing, our airport is not interested in purchasing with
such a cloud hanging! Also, all of these demos out in the field lead
me to believe that they have to give away the equipment on a trial
basis in hopes they can force a purchase once it is installed. That
just doesn't sit well with us, here.
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:48:49 GMT, Pastor Pants
<sneckage>
Post by Pastor Pants
I think we have k00k potential here.
K0ok s0ot is ALWAYS 100% full froth k0oky. I LURVE k0ok S0ot. Double
k0ok s0ot is like an early Christmas present.
Now, the question is, which k0ok will have the balls to actually file
first. Both have threatened, now one has to pull the rhetoric plug,
grow a set and haul ass (probably taking two trips) to the local
courts and file.
So those that know the k0oks involved care to give us (tinu) odss as
to which k0ok is the more likely to pony up the frequent k0ok points
and file?
Uhm, neither one?
a***@okfrance.com
2005-12-01 03:12:36 UTC
Permalink
It appears from the posts here that someone has something to say about
this company Belfort Instruments to everyone in this group. It is also
appears that representatives of this company are posing as different
individuals trying to quell the posts as if they are nothing!
From what I have read, it seems as though this company has some major
problems which they need to address including how they act in public
arenas! Ids this some comapny representative acting this way ....
trying to shout over some damaging information which looks legitimate!

I do know one thing, our airport is not interested in purchasing with
such a cloud hanging! Also, all of these demos out in the field lead
me to believe that they have to give away the equipment on a trial
basis in hopes they can force a purchase once it is installed. That
just doesn't sit well with us, here.
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:48:49 GMT, Pastor Pants
<sneckage>
Post by Pastor Pants
I think we have k00k potential here.
K0ok s0ot is ALWAYS 100% full froth k0oky. I LURVE k0ok S0ot. Double
k0ok s0ot is like an early Christmas present.
Now, the question is, which k0ok will have the balls to actually file
first. Both have threatened, now one has to pull the rhetoric plug,
grow a set and haul ass (probably taking two trips) to the local
courts and file.
So those that know the k0oks involved care to give us (tinu) odss as
to which k0ok is the more likely to pony up the frequent k0ok points
and file?
Uhm, neither one?
a***@okfrance.com
2005-12-01 03:13:04 UTC
Permalink
It appears from the posts here that someone has something to say about
this company Belfort Instruments to everyone in this group. It is also
appears that representatives of this company are posing as different
individuals trying to quell the posts as if they are nothing!
From what I have read, it seems as though this company has some major
problems which they need to address including how they act in public
arenas! Ids this some comapny representative acting this way ....
trying to shout over some damaging information which looks legitimate!

I do know one thing, our airport is not interested in purchasing with
such a cloud hanging! Also, all of these demos out in the field lead
me to believe that they have to give away the equipment on a trial
basis in hopes they can force a purchase once it is installed. That
just doesn't sit well with us, here.
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:48:49 GMT, Pastor Pants
<sneckage>
Post by Pastor Pants
I think we have k00k potential here.
K0ok s0ot is ALWAYS 100% full froth k0oky. I LURVE k0ok S0ot. Double
k0ok s0ot is like an early Christmas present.
Now, the question is, which k0ok will have the balls to actually file
first. Both have threatened, now one has to pull the rhetoric plug,
grow a set and haul ass (probably taking two trips) to the local
courts and file.
So those that know the k0oks involved care to give us (tinu) odss as
to which k0ok is the more likely to pony up the frequent k0ok points
and file?
Uhm, neither one?
a***@okfrance.com
2005-12-01 03:13:26 UTC
Permalink
It appears from the posts here that someone has something to say about
this company Belfort Instruments to everyone in this group. It is also
appears that representatives of this company are posing as different
individuals trying to quell the posts as if they are nothing!
From what I have read, it seems as though this company has some major
problems which they need to address including how they act in public
arenas! Ids this some comapny representative acting this way ....
trying to shout over some damaging information which looks legitimate!

I do know one thing, our airport is not interested in purchasing with
such a cloud hanging! Also, all of these demos out in the field lead
me to believe that they have to give away the equipment on a trial
basis in hopes they can force a purchase once it is installed. That
just doesn't sit well with us, here.
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:48:49 GMT, Pastor Pants
<sneckage>
Post by Pastor Pants
I think we have k00k potential here.
K0ok s0ot is ALWAYS 100% full froth k0oky. I LURVE k0ok S0ot. Double
k0ok s0ot is like an early Christmas present.
Now, the question is, which k0ok will have the balls to actually file
first. Both have threatened, now one has to pull the rhetoric plug,
grow a set and haul ass (probably taking two trips) to the local
courts and file.
So those that know the k0oks involved care to give us (tinu) odss as
to which k0ok is the more likely to pony up the frequent k0ok points
and file?
Uhm, neither one?
a***@okfrance.com
2005-12-01 03:13:33 UTC
Permalink
It appears from the posts here that someone has something to say about
this company Belfort Instruments to everyone in this group. It is also
appears that representatives of this company are posing as different
individuals trying to quell the posts as if they are nothing!
From what I have read, it seems as though this company has some major
problems which they need to address including how they act in public
arenas! Ids this some comapny representative acting this way ....
trying to shout over some damaging information which looks legitimate!

I do know one thing, our airport is not interested in purchasing with
such a cloud hanging! Also, all of these demos out in the field lead
me to believe that they have to give away the equipment on a trial
basis in hopes they can force a purchase once it is installed. That
just doesn't sit well with us, here.
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:48:49 GMT, Pastor Pants
<sneckage>
Post by Pastor Pants
I think we have k00k potential here.
K0ok s0ot is ALWAYS 100% full froth k0oky. I LURVE k0ok S0ot. Double
k0ok s0ot is like an early Christmas present.
Now, the question is, which k0ok will have the balls to actually file
first. Both have threatened, now one has to pull the rhetoric plug,
grow a set and haul ass (probably taking two trips) to the local
courts and file.
So those that know the k0oks involved care to give us (tinu) odss as
to which k0ok is the more likely to pony up the frequent k0ok points
and file?
Uhm, neither one?
MoriartyFanClub
2005-12-02 04:27:15 UTC
Permalink
It appears from the posts here that you have no idea how to use the
Internet, posting the same message 5 times in a row.

"Ids this some comapny representative acting this way ...."

Sphincter say what? Please learn some grasp of the English language -- it
would sincerely help you convey what little point you offer.

As for Mister "Belfort Ruined My Life and Stole my Fortune"
" IF YOU WANT TO CENSOR THE PRESS, GO LIVE IN THE SOVIET UNION!"

Ummmm, do you happen to know what year it is? I'm wondering if this bout
with a several decade long coma is the cause of your troubles. How's Windows
3.1 working out for ya?
Post by a***@okfrance.com
It appears from the posts here that someone has something to say about
this company Belfort Instruments to everyone in this group. It is also
appears that representatives of this company are posing as different
individuals trying to quell the posts as if they are nothing!
From what I have read, it seems as though this company has some major
problems which they need to address including how they act in public
arenas! Ids this some comapny representative acting this way ....
trying to shout over some damaging information which looks legitimate!
I do know one thing, our airport is not interested in purchasing with
such a cloud hanging! Also, all of these demos out in the field lead
me to believe that they have to give away the equipment on a trial
basis in hopes they can force a purchase once it is installed. That
just doesn't sit well with us, here.
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:48:49 GMT, Pastor Pants
<sneckage>
Post by Pastor Pants
I think we have k00k potential here.
K0ok s0ot is ALWAYS 100% full froth k0oky. I LURVE k0ok S0ot. Double
k0ok s0ot is like an early Christmas present.
Now, the question is, which k0ok will have the balls to actually file
first. Both have threatened, now one has to pull the rhetoric plug,
grow a set and haul ass (probably taking two trips) to the local
courts and file.
So those that know the k0oks involved care to give us (tinu) odss as
to which k0ok is the more likely to pony up the frequent k0ok points
and file?
Uhm, neither one?
a***@okfrance.com
2005-12-05 02:38:24 UTC
Permalink
.What's wrong, mommy didn't give you any last night! Boy, you really
are a lowlife, aren't you!

Windows 3.1 works just fine!

Censorship is alive and well in the Soviet Union, maybe they have a job
for you! Take your two toothpick legs and walk to the airport and
apply for a one-way ticket based on your decrepid ugly face! Once you
are in Moscow, you can sell those infamous Belfort Instrument T-shirts
until the icecicles on your ass freeze your big pie hole!
Post by MoriartyFanClub
It appears from the posts here that you have no idea how to use the
Internet, posting the same message 5 times in a row.
"Ids this some comapny representative acting this way ...."
Sphincter say what? Please learn some grasp of the English language -- it
would sincerely help you convey what little point you offer.
As for Mister "Belfort Ruined My Life and Stole my Fortune"
" IF YOU WANT TO CENSOR THE PRESS, GO LIVE IN THE SOVIET UNION!"
Ummmm, do you happen to know what year it is? I'm wondering if this bout
with a several decade long coma is the cause of your troubles. How's Windows
3.1 working out for ya?
Post by a***@okfrance.com
It appears from the posts here that someone has something to say about
this company Belfort Instruments to everyone in this group. It is also
appears that representatives of this company are posing as different
individuals trying to quell the posts as if they are nothing!
From what I have read, it seems as though this company has some major
problems which they need to address including how they act in public
arenas! Ids this some comapny representative acting this way ....
trying to shout over some damaging information which looks legitimate!
I do know one thing, our airport is not interested in purchasing with
such a cloud hanging! Also, all of these demos out in the field lead
me to believe that they have to give away the equipment on a trial
basis in hopes they can force a purchase once it is installed. That
just doesn't sit well with us, here.
Post by Aratzio
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:48:49 GMT, Pastor Pants
<sneckage>
Post by Pastor Pants
I think we have k00k potential here.
K0ok s0ot is ALWAYS 100% full froth k0oky. I LURVE k0ok S0ot. Double
k0ok s0ot is like an early Christmas present.
Now, the question is, which k0ok will have the balls to actually file
first. Both have threatened, now one has to pull the rhetoric plug,
grow a set and haul ass (probably taking two trips) to the local
courts and file.
So those that know the k0oks involved care to give us (tinu) odss as
to which k0ok is the more likely to pony up the frequent k0ok points
and file?
Uhm, neither one?
a***@homework.com
2005-12-09 17:48:24 UTC
Permalink
Why go with a follower when you choose from
among the Leaders in AWOS weather systems like:

http://www.vaisala.com/businessareas/solutions/av
iationweather/products/automatedweatherobservings
ystems

http://www.allweatherinc.com/aviation/awos_dom.ht
ml

http://www.superawos.com

These three vendors have AWOS weather systems
which have been "commissioned" by the FAA. Not
every company can say that.... so do YOUR
homework! Or you'll be sorry....

and CHECK OUT THIS VALID COMPARISON of AWOS:
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm

WHY WASTE YOUR MONIES ON AN INFERIOR AWOS?
Joseph Bartlo
2005-12-07 02:52:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lakeview Bill
Dude...have you never heard of LIBEL?
You are pushing dangerously close to it with these posts.
If you want to continue to demonstrate what a moron you are, knock yourself
out. But you'd better plan on doing it with empty pockets...
If people could be sued for libel in usenet posts, I'd be a billionaire and
some lawyer would be a millionaire (hint to any who might be browsing - you
may be able to become exceedingly rich) with the bullshit people constantly
post about me here. Maybe it is different for a company.
Art Deco
2005-12-07 04:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph Bartlo
Post by Lakeview Bill
Dude...have you never heard of LIBEL?
You are pushing dangerously close to it with these posts.
If you want to continue to demonstrate what a moron you are, knock yourself
out. But you'd better plan on doing it with empty pockets...
If people could be sued for libel in usenet posts, I'd be a billionaire and
some lawyer would be a millionaire (hint to any who might be browsing - you
may be able to become exceedingly rich) with the bullshit people constantly
post about me here. Maybe it is different for a company.
Maybe you should post a lits of all the bullshit people constantly post
about you here, Jo.
--
Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler
Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in alt.astronomy

"The original human being was a female hermaphrodite with
both male and female genitalia."

"Human beings CAN NOT live in a solar system without a sun
with a ferrite core and a planet without a solid iron core."

-- Alexa Cameron, Kook of the Year 2004

"I am a sean being from another planet."
-- Darla aka Dr. Why aka Dr. Yubiwan aka Silouen aka ...
Bookman
2005-12-07 21:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Art Deco
Post by Joseph Bartlo
Post by Lakeview Bill
Dude...have you never heard of LIBEL?
You are pushing dangerously close to it with these posts.
If you want to continue to demonstrate what a moron you are, knock yourself
out. But you'd better plan on doing it with empty pockets...
If people could be sued for libel in usenet posts, I'd be a billionaire and
some lawyer would be a millionaire (hint to any who might be browsing - you
may be able to become exceedingly rich) with the bullshit people constantly
post about me here. Maybe it is different for a company.
Maybe you should post a lits of all the bullshit people constantly post
about you here, Jo.
Not that it will be a complete lits. But I wouldn't be surprised,
since all he wants to do is fight his widdle "wars", and cause
bickering, since Joey Bratlo is a pest.

ESL!
--
Bookman -The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in AFA-B
Kazoo Konspirator #668 (The Neighbor of the Beast)
Clue-Bat Wrangler
Keeper of the Nickname Lists
Despotic Kookologist of the New World Order
Monthly Hammer of Thor award, October 2005
"I'd love to kill you in a ring" - Bartmo gets all touchy-feely
"****SPV....... So yes I am an idiot."
"ASK THE NWS, YOUR TAX DOLLAR GOES TO THEM NOT TO DR.TURI."
- Mr. Turi explains how to accurately predict hurricanes
http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/afa-b/
http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/afa-b/index.html
bru
2005-12-07 23:11:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bookman
Post by Art Deco
Post by Joseph Bartlo
Post by Lakeview Bill
Dude...have you never heard of LIBEL?
You are pushing dangerously close to it with these posts.
If you want to continue to demonstrate what a moron you are, knock yourself
out. But you'd better plan on doing it with empty pockets...
If people could be sued for libel in usenet posts, I'd be a billionaire and
some lawyer would be a millionaire (hint to any who might be browsing - you
may be able to become exceedingly rich) with the bullshit people constantly
post about me here. Maybe it is different for a company.
Maybe you should post a lits of all the bullshit people constantly post
about you here, Jo.
Not that it will be a complete lits. But I wouldn't be surprised,
since all he wants to do is fight his widdle "wars", and cause
bickering, since Joey Bratlo is a pest.
ESL!
The Wreck of the "Thomas Dryden"
in Pentland Firth
As I stood upon the sandy beach
One morn near Pentland Ferry,
I saw a beautiful brigantine,
And all her crew seem'd merry.
When lo! the wind began to howl,
And the clouds began to frown,
And in the twinkling of an eye
The rain came pouring down.
Then the sea began to swell,
And seem'd like mountains high,
And the sailors on board that brigantine
To God for help did loudly cry.
Oh! it was an awful sight
To see them struggling with all their might,
And Imploring God their lives to save
From a merciless watery grave.
Their cargo consisted of window-glass,
Also coal and linseed-oil,
Which helped to calm the raging sea
That loud and angry did boil.
Because when the bottoms of the barrels
Were with the raging billows stove in,
The oil spread o'er the water,
And smoothed the stormy billows' din!
Then she began to duck in the trough of the sea,
Which was fearful to behold;
And her crossyards dipped in the big billows
As from side to side she rolled.
She was tossed about on the merciless sea,
And received some terrible shocks,
Until at last she ran against
A jagged reef of rocks.
'Twas then she was rent asunder,
And the water did rush in --
It was most dreadful to hear it,
It made such a terrific din.
Then the crew jumped into the small boats
While the Storm-fiend did roar,
And were very near being drowned
Before they got ashore.
Then the coal-dust blackened the water
Around her where she lay,
And the barrels of linseed-oil
They floated far away.
And when the crew did get ashore,
They were shaking with cold and fright,
And they went away to Huna inn,
And got lodgings for the night!
--
Brugman Mooivinger
a***@homework.com
2005-12-09 17:44:23 UTC
Permalink
Why go with a follower when you choose from
among the Leaders in AWOS weather systems like:

http://www.vaisala.com/businessareas/solutions/av
iationweather/products/automatedweatherobservings
ystems

http://www.allweatherinc.com/aviation/awos_dom.ht
ml

http://www.superawos.com

These three vendors have AWOS weather systems
which have been "commissioned" by the FAA. Not
every company can say that.... so do YOUR
homework! Or you'll be sorry....

and CHECK OUT THIS VALID COMPARISON of AWOS:
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm

WHY WASTE YOUR MONIES ON AN INFERIOR AWOS?
Cole Younger
2005-12-09 22:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph Bartlo
Post by Lakeview Bill
Dude...have you never heard of LIBEL?
You are pushing dangerously close to it with these posts.
If you want to continue to demonstrate what a moron you are, knock yourself
out. But you'd better plan on doing it with empty pockets...
If people could be sued for libel in usenet posts, I'd be a billionaire and
some lawyer would be a millionaire (hint to any who might be browsing - you
may be able to become exceedingly rich) with the bullshit people constantly
post about me here. Maybe it is different for a company.
If people could be sued for death threats made in
Usenet posts, you would be flat broke and living
with your momma in an Appalachian trailer. Oh, wait,
that's where you do live! If people could be convicted
of death threats made on Usenet, you'd be convicted
of mulitiple crimes, and living in a steel and concrete
cage, and you'd be the bent-over little girl of some
big tattooed dude name of Rocky. Just close your eyes,
Jojo, and pretend he's your goat.
a***@homework.com
2005-12-10 16:12:51 UTC
Permalink
The Wright Brothers Relied exclusively on a
Richard's Anemometer to record wind speed and
direction. Here is a history documenting the
definitive proof including a picture of Wilbur
Wright actually using Richard's anemometer.
DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU DIFFERENTLY!


THE HISTORY: Octave Chanute responded to
Wilbur's letter on May 12th, 1901. He suggested
that Wilbur specify whether he wanted to use the
English [Robinson, a cup type] or French
anemometer [Richard of Paris, a rotating vane
type] at the appropriate time. [An anemometer is
an instrument used to determine the wind's
speed. The English anemometer is a Robinson
anemometer, a cup type. The French anemometer is
by Richard of Paris and is a rotating vane type.]

http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Wright/history1_1901
4.html


WILBUR WRIGHT TO OCTAVE CHANUTE
Dayton, Ohio, May 17, 1901

As to anemometer we are inclined to think that
we would prefer the nonrecording Richard's
instrument as our chief use for it will be
measuring velocities for very brief periods.

http://invention.psychology.msstate.edu/inventors
/i/Wrights/library/Chanute_Wright_correspond/1901
/May17-1901.html


RICHARD ANEMOMETER
The Wrights borrowed this French-made, hand-held
anemometer from Octave Chanute and used it to
measure wind speeds during their flight tests at
Kitty Hawk.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/wrightbrothers/fly/1900/te
stflying.cfm


TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1903
An anemometer, or wind gauge, is an instrument
for measuring the force and speed of wind. The
earliest anemometer was invented by Thomas
Romney Robinson (1793 - 1882). This gauge uses
an arrangement of cups on a spindle to detect
the wind and a series of clockwork connections
to translate the speed of the rotating cups to a
wind speed value. Octave Chanute, the Wright's
French colleague, brought them a later
anemometer made by Richard of Paris.

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/2003FF/sept.htm
l


WRITINGS OF THE WRIGHT BROTHERS (Final Prep)

We had a "Richard" hand anemometer with which we
measured the velocity of the wind. Measurements
made just before starting the first flight
(December 17, 1903) showed velocities of 11 to
12 meters per second, or 24 to 27 miles per
hour. Measurements made just before the last
flight (December 17, 1903) gave between 9 and 10
meters per second. One made just after showed a
little over 8 meters.


WILBUR WRIGHT WITH RICHARD'S ANEMOMETER (picture)

http://www.exn.ca/FlightDeck/Aviators/wright3.cfm


How about this blog: http://digishit.blog.cz/
Chadwick Stone©
2005-12-12 11:06:40 UTC
Permalink
X-No-Archive: YES
Joseph Bartlo has offered into testimony
Post by Joseph Bartlo
Post by Lakeview Bill
Dude...have you never heard of LIBEL?
You are pushing dangerously close to it with these posts.
If you want to continue to demonstrate what a moron you are, knock
yourself out. But you'd better plan on doing it with empty pockets...
If people could be sued for libel in usenet posts, I'd be a billionaire
Dumbass. You clearly have no idea of the strict criteria set to demonstrate
libel. Hustler got away with saying that Jerry Falwell fucked his own
mother in an outhouse... guess where that leaves you, a virtual no one?
--
Skepticult® Member# 581-00504-208
ChadwickStone at Gmail dot com
Usenet's most helpful netizen
Hammer of Thor, March 2005
Newps
2005-12-12 18:56:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chadwick Stone©
Dumbass. You clearly have no idea of the strict criteria set to demonstrate
libel. Hustler got away with saying that Jerry Falwell fucked his own
mother in an outhouse... guess where that leaves you, a virtual no one?
In a much better position because he is not famous.
Chadwick Stone©
2005-12-12 21:19:17 UTC
Permalink
X-No-Archive: YES
Newps has offered into testimony
Post by Newps
Post by Chadwick Stone©
Dumbass. You clearly have no idea of the strict criteria set to
demonstrate libel. Hustler got away with saying that Jerry Falwell
fucked his own mother in an outhouse... guess where that leaves you, a
virtual no one?
In a much better position because he is not famous.
His lack of fame is a moot point, it all has to do with what a person could
reasonably believe concerning the things that are said about him. Check the
record, count the number of successful libel suits brought about by victims
of mean words on Usenet.
--
Skepticult® Member# 581-00504-208
ChadwickStone at Gmail dot com
Usenet's most helpful netizen
Hammer of Thor, March 2005
Bob Officer
2005-12-12 21:22:29 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:56:14 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, Newps
Post by Newps
Post by Chadwick Stone©
Dumbass. You clearly have no idea of the strict criteria set to demonstrate
libel. Hustler got away with saying that Jerry Falwell fucked his own
mother in an outhouse... guess where that leaves you, a virtual no one?
In a much better position because he is not famous.
he would be in a better position if he had never posted to usenet.

By posting to usenet you have solicited any and all replies. The Most people
never stop and read the welcome to usenet FADs, or emily-post etiquette
articles. If you post silly things, you will be flamed, trolled, and
roasted.

Usenet doesn't tolerate fools and idiots.
--
Ak'toh'di
a***@okfrance.com
2005-12-13 05:53:42 UTC
Permalink
Looks like you would be interested in one of those infamous Belfort
Instruments T-shirts! Afterall, didn't they support the Wright
Brothers in their first flight! Who created such a rumor! LOL
Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:56:14 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, Newps
Post by Newps
Post by Chadwick Stone©
Dumbass. You clearly have no idea of the strict criteria set to demonstrate
libel. Hustler got away with saying that Jerry Falwell fucked his own
mother in an outhouse... guess where that leaves you, a virtual no one?
In a much better position because he is not famous.
he would be in a better position if he had never posted to usenet.
By posting to usenet you have solicited any and all replies. The Most people
never stop and read the welcome to usenet FADs, or emily-post etiquette
articles. If you post silly things, you will be flamed, trolled, and
roasted.
Usenet doesn't tolerate fools and idiots.
--
Ak'toh'di
a***@okfrance.com
2005-12-13 06:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like you would be interested in one of those infamous Belfort
T-shirts ...YES! Did the Wright Brothers REALLY rely on Belfort
Instruments??? Who came up with this? LOL
Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:56:14 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, Newps
Post by Newps
Post by Chadwick Stone©
Dumbass. You clearly have no idea of the strict criteria set to demonstrate
libel. Hustler got away with saying that Jerry Falwell fucked his own
mother in an outhouse... guess where that leaves you, a virtual no one?
In a much better position because he is not famous.
he would be in a better position if he had never posted to usenet.
By posting to usenet you have solicited any and all replies. The Most people
never stop and read the welcome to usenet FADs, or emily-post etiquette
articles. If you post silly things, you will be flamed, trolled, and
roasted.
Usenet doesn't tolerate fools and idiots.
--
Ak'toh'di
awos
2005-12-13 20:49:55 UTC
Permalink
Belfort Instrument President Mark Decker gave me a DigiWx tee-shirt
this past summer at the SATS demo in Danville, Virginia and it reads:

"The Wright Brothers relied on us. December 17, 1903, Wind NE at 21
mph" while the Wright Brothers personally wrote on December 17, 1903:

"We had a 'Richard' hand anemometer with which we measured the velocity

of the wind. Measurements made just before starting the first flight
showed velocities of 11 to 12 meters per second, or 24 to 27 miles per
hour. Measurements made just before the last flight gave between 9 and
10
meters per second. One made just after showed a little over 8 meters."

And then there is that indisputable picture:

WILBUR WRIGHT USING A RICHARD'S ANEMOMETER (picture)
http://www.exn.ca/FlightDeck/Aviators/wright3.cfm

You won't find a picture of the Belfort/Friez weather station (circa
1897-1913) with the Wright Brothers in the background or the foreground

because there isn't one! In fact, there is no direct evidence (written
or otherwise) that Belfort or Friez ever had a weather station at Kitty

Hawk, NC in December 1903. And there is no direct evidence (written or
otherwise) that the US Weather Bureau ever bought the Belfort/Friez
weather station and placed it in use on the outer banks of North
Carolina.

The Wright Brothers chose the outer banks of North Carolina for three
reasons:

1) they needed a large open space to conduct their flight experiments
2) they needed a soft landing environment which "beach sand" provided,
and 3) they needed steady winds which all beaches usually have.

Additionally, Belfort claims to have been founded in 1876. Yet, Julien
Friez never made it to Baltimore until at least 1890 according to:
http://www.colby.edu/sts/97guide/sm_nmah.html

"Julien Pierre Friez (1852-1916) was born in France and came to the
United States at the age of 15. He worked with Robert Henning in
Ottawa,
Illinois on telegraphy equipment, circa 1868; later he was a foreman
for
Ottomar Mergentheler, circa 1880-1890. After leaving Mergentheler,
Friez moved to Baltimore where he set up Belfort Laboratories and began
a
manufacture of scientific instruments. He later acquired an interest in

meteorology and did important work on the design and manufacture of
meteorological recording instruments."

Lastly, Belfort claims to be "The Oldest Weather Company in the World"
yet the earliest anemometer was invented by Thomas Romney Robinson
(1793 - 1882). Mr. Robinson invented his anemometer in 1846 before
Julian Friez even was born six years later in 1852. I think that makes
Mr.
Robinson the creator of "The Oldest Weather Company in the World."
http://www.universityscience.ie/pages/scientists/sci_thomas_romney_robinson.php

How disingenuous can a company get ?????????????????????????

Belfort Instrument Company is FULL OF IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too bad they had to "hijack" their fabled company history while taking
away from the accomplishments and endeavors of the Wright Brothers
and from Thomas Romney Robinson!

HOW LOW CAN YOU GO ??????????????????????????
awos
2005-12-17 16:40:45 UTC
Permalink
I'm surprised Belfort Instrument Company hasn't yet claimed to have
been the "first" weather station on the moon considering all the other
fantastic assertions they have made.

And here is another:

Belfort Instrument Company DigiWx AWOS - Have any been commissioned by
the FAA - And if so, for how long will that last?

I was browsing the locations of DigiWx weather systems from Belfort's
homepage and wondered how many were actually commissioned by the FAA as
AWOS units. So I started at the beginning of the alphabet and then
started contacting the listed airports and it wasn't until I got to
letter "G" for Greenville airport that I finally found a DigiWx AWOS.
But as it turns out, there was a wicked twist.The first 9 listed
DigiWx's (A thru F) are not even AWOS units at all. Imagine that! Then
the next riveting revelation was that Belfort installed a DigiWx AWOS
at Greenville but the FAA has not yet commissioned the system. It seems
that Belfort has not yet gotten their in-house tech support manager
licensed by the FCC. I asked Greenville what happens if the tech
support manager loses his license or quits and moves on. They didn't
know. One would have to guess the AWOS would then fall out of
commission! Greenville told me that Lake in the Hills airport is in the
same boat. So I called them and inquired. Lake in the Hills has had
their DigiWx AWOS since May 2005 and it has never been commissioned by
the FAA either! How can this be? Belfort Instrument Company claims to
have their DigiWx AWOS system FAA Approved yet there are none
commissioned by the FAA in the field (after I proceeded on down the
alphabet to end with William T. Piper Memorial airport). Isn't FAA
Approval and FAA commissioning the same thing? Why would anyone want
one of these non-commissioned systems sitting around on their airport
gathering dust?

And then there is the matter of which DigiWx locations are actually
online. On the Belfort homepage, they list hyperlinks for 10 of their
weather stations:

Baltimore Marine Center (BALTM), Baltimore, Maryland
Belen Alexander Airport (E80), Belen, New Mexico
Buckeye Airport (BXK), Buckeye, Arizona
Coral Creek Airport (FA54), Placida, FL (live web cam)
Greenville Airport (GRE), Greenville, Illinois
Moriarty Airport (0E0), Moriarty, New Mexico
Ocean City Airport (26N), Ocean City, New Jersey
Sandia Airpark (1N1), Edgewood, New Mexico (live web cam)
University of Maryland Shock Trauma Center (HMIEM), Baltimore, Maryland
William T. Piper Memorial Airport (LHV), Lock Haven, Pennsylvania


Try clicking one of the hyperlinks because fully half of the hyperlinks
display "Current Data NOT available" How reliable is that? Do you want
want at your airport? One has to wonder who has been "pulling the wool"
over the eyes of those at the listed airports? At this rate, Belfort
won't celebate a 110 year anniversary or a 130 year anniversary
depending upon whom you believe when Belfort claims their company was
founded in 1876 even though Julian Friez never made it to Baltimore
until at least 1890 to set up shop! If you haven't read that thread
yet, just follow this hyperlink:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=belfort+julian+friez&hl=en
awos
2005-12-21 17:44:27 UTC
Permalink
We were considering a DigiWx AWOS and a SuperAWOS. I was sold on DigiWx
AWOS until I started talking with DigiWx users who had the DigiWx VOICE
option including Huntington UT, Annapolis MD, Monticello UT and Ocean
City, NJ after I saw the comparison at
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm. SuperAWOS told me I
wouldn't find any happy users and I didn't!

All four airports report DigiWx VOICE as not working greater than 90%
of the time. I did hear one user say that DigiWx had mic clicks
available. But SuperAWOS say DigiWx mic clicks is not automatically
adaptive --- only manually adaptive which means there has to be
somebody available to alter the message length on an Automated Unicom
transmission.

Considering all the other things I have been hearing about DigiWx and
the Belfort Instrument Company, I believe we will be pursuing the
SuperAWOS product instead even though it costs more. But like someone
already said, buy SHIT and you'll have SHIT! We don't want any DigiWx
turds around on our airport!
s***@titanic.net
2005-12-24 03:59:41 UTC
Permalink
With everything that I have heard about Belfort, I would think people
should wonder who owns this company. A search at http://www.nasdaq.com
revealed "No matches found" for Belfort Instrument Inc. So the company
must be privately-held.

A search at
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Belfort+Instrument+Inc+owner&btnG=Search
revealed:

Reissue Applications Notice - OG Date: 26 February 200226, 2001, Cl.
340/601,
PORTABLE METEOROLOGICAL INFORMATION SYSTEM, Bruce R. Robinson, Owner of
Record: Belfort Instrument, Inc., Baltimore, MD, ...
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/sol/og/2002/week09/patreis.htm


Then, a search at
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Bruce+R.+Robinson&btnG=Search
showed

UtiliPoint International, Inc.
Bruce R. Robinson Chairman. Mr. Robinson is the senior corporate
officer
Responsible for strategic planning ... Bruce R. Robinson. Contact Bruce
Robinson ...
www.utilipoint.com/team/robinson.asp with a link to
http://www.quickstrategy.com


Strategy Advisors (http://www.quickstrategy.com/advisors.jsp)
include: Mr. Robinson who has authored "Strategic Acquisitions: A Guide
to Growing and Enhancing the Value of Your Business, and QuickStrategy:
A Proven Method to Focus and Guide Your Business in Rapidly Changing
Markets."

It makes one wonder if he reads his own books! If he had, he'd know
that Belfort Instruments is in the fast lane to nowhere!
Post by awos
We were considering a DigiWx AWOS and a SuperAWOS. I was sold on DigiWx
AWOS until I started talking with DigiWx users who had the DigiWx VOICE
option including Huntington UT, Annapolis MD, Monticello UT and Ocean
City, NJ after I saw the comparison at
http://www.superawos.com/feature_comparison.htm. SuperAWOS told me I
wouldn't find any happy users and I didn't!
All four airports report DigiWx VOICE as not working greater than 90%
of the time. I did hear one user say that DigiWx had mic clicks
available. But SuperAWOS say DigiWx mic clicks is not automatically
adaptive --- only manually adaptive which means there has to be
somebody available to alter the message length on an Automated Unicom
transmission.
Considering all the other things I have been hearing about DigiWx and
the Belfort Instrument Company, I believe we will be pursuing the
SuperAWOS product instead even though it costs more. But like someone
already said, buy SHIT and you'll have SHIT! We don't want any DigiWx
turds around on our airport!
awos
2005-12-27 17:55:39 UTC
Permalink
Newsgroups: ne.weather, rec.aviation.products, rec.aviation.piloting,
sci.geo.meteorology
From: ***@titanic.net
Date: 23 Dec 2005 19:56:48 -0800
Local: Fri, Dec 23 2005 10:56 pm
Subject: Scrooge: Christmas at Belfort Instruments

With everything that I have heard about Belfort, I would think people
should wonder who owns this company. Personally, I thought it was
SCROOGE. A search at http://www.nasdaq.com revealed "No matches found"
for Belfort Instrument Inc. So the company must be privately-held.

A search at
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Belfort+Instrument+Inc+owner...

revealed:

Reissue Applications Notice - OG Date: 26 February 200226, 2001, Cl.
340/601, PORTABLE METEOROLOGICAL INFORMATION SYSTEM, Bruce R. Robinson,
Owner of Record: Belfort Instrument, Inc., Baltimore, MD, ...
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/sol/og/2002/week09/patreis.htm

Then, a search at
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Bruce+R.+Robinson&btnG=Search
showed:

UtiliPoint International, Inc.
Bruce R. Robinson Chairman. Mr. Robinson is the senior corporate
officer Responsible for strategic planning ... Bruce R. Robinson.
Contact Bruce
Robinson ... www.utilipoint.com/team/robinson.asp with a link to
http://www.quickstrategy.com

Strategy Advisors (http://www.quickstrategy.com/advisors.jsp) include:
Mr. Robinson who has authored "Strategic Acquisitions: A Guide to
Growing and Enhancing the Value of Your Business, and QuickStrategy: A
Proven Method to Focus and Guide Your Business in Rapidly Changing
Markets."

It makes one wonder if he reads his own books! If he had, he'd know
that Belfort Instruments is in the fast lane to nowhere!



Newsgroups: rec.aviation.products, ne.weather, sci.geo.meteorology,
rec.aviation.piloting
From: ***@merseymail.com
Date: 26 Dec 2005 18:29:15 -0800
Local: Mon, Dec 26 2005 9:29 pm
Subject: What is REALLY going on at Belfort Instument? Maybe this
information sheds some light on it!

When one does some researching on topics such as Belfort Instrument,
some interesting things are found! Thus, please take a look for
yourself, and see what you think! Sometimes things are different than
they would expect to appear!

Bruce R. Robinson http://www.utilipoint.com/team/robinson.asp says he
"co-owns two electronic instrument companies in addition to his
investment in UtiliPoint."

Nicholas C. Kaufman http://www.quickstrategy.com/advisors.jsp says he
"is co-owner of two small manufacturing companies."

Are Bruce R. Robinson and Nicholas C. Kaufman co-owners of the same two
companies?


http://www.belfortinstrument.com/aboutbelfort.html lists:

http://www.advancedretro.com/
http://www.udtinstruments.com/
http://www.digiwx.com

and

http://www.gamma-sci.com/


Are the Belfort Instrument Company and Gamma Scientific the two
companies that Bruce R. Robinson and Nicholas C. Kaufman co-own
together?

Did Nick read the books that Bruce authored?



And then Guest Columnist Bruce R. Robinson writes:

"Ten wrong turns to avoid on the road to success"

http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2004/04/12/smallb3.html


So how many wrong turns has Belfort Instrument Company and Gamma
Scientific taken?

a***@okfrance.com
2005-12-13 05:53:42 UTC
Permalink
Looks like you would be interested in one of those infamous Belfort
Instruments T-shirts! Afterall, didn't they support the Wright
Brothers in their first flight! Who created such a rumor! LOL
Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:56:14 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, Newps
Post by Newps
Post by Chadwick Stone©
Dumbass. You clearly have no idea of the strict criteria set to demonstrate
libel. Hustler got away with saying that Jerry Falwell fucked his own
mother in an outhouse... guess where that leaves you, a virtual no one?
In a much better position because he is not famous.
he would be in a better position if he had never posted to usenet.
By posting to usenet you have solicited any and all replies. The Most people
never stop and read the welcome to usenet FADs, or emily-post etiquette
articles. If you post silly things, you will be flamed, trolled, and
roasted.
Usenet doesn't tolerate fools and idiots.
--
Ak'toh'di
Casey Wilson
2005-11-06 01:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by awos
Not soooo SuperAWOS
http://piperowner.org/viewforumtopic.asp?id=3D39090
Author: Dave
Date: 3/20/2005 10:55:50 AM
I ignored this tripe the first time....

.... this time ---> PLONK!!
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...