Discussion:
1,100 US counties face water supply crisis by 2050
(too old to reply)
OoBbOo NnZz
2010-08-04 06:03:52 UTC
Permalink
http://www.desalination.biz/news/news_story.asp?id=5439&channel=0&title=1%2C100+US+counties+face+water+supply+crisis+by+2050%2C+says+report
03 August 2010
1,100 US counties face water supply crisis by 2050, says report
A new analysis for the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC),
examining the effects of global warming on water supply and demand in
the contiguous United States, has found that more than 1,100 counties
will face higher risks of water shortages by mid-century as the result
of global warming.
http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/watersustainability/files/WaterRisk.pdf
Yeah right.


Disclaimer

The projections are based on results from computer models that involve
simplifications of real physical processes that are not fully understood.

Accordingly, no responsibility will be accepted for the accuracy of the
projections inferred from this brochure or for any person's interpretations,
deductions, conclusions or actions in reliance on this information.



And further:

Climate model responses are most uncertain in how they represent feedback
effects, particularly those dealing with changes to cloud regimes,

biological effects and ocean-atmosphere interactions.

The coarse spatial resolution of climate models also remains a limitation on
their ability to simulate the details of regional climate change.

Future climate change will also be influenced by other, largely
unpredictable, factors such as changes in solar radiation, volcanic
eruptions and chaotic variations within the climate system itself.

Rapid climate change, or a step-like climate response to the enhanced
greenhouse effect, is possible but its likelihood cannot be defined.

Because changes outside the ranges given here cannot be ruled out, these
projections should be considered with caution.





Warmest Regards

Bonz0

"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps
US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists
worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct
from natural variation."
Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville

"It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you
have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your
side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is
wrong. Period."
Professor Richard Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics

"A core problem is that science has given way to ideology. The scientific
method has been dispensed with, or abused, to serve the myth of man-made
global warming."
"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips

"Computer models are built in an almost backwards fashion: The goal is to
show evidence of AGW, and the "scientists" go to work to produce such a
result. When even these models fail to show what advocates want, the data
and interpretations are "fudged" to bring about the desired result"
"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips

"Ocean acidification looks suspiciously like a back-up plan by the
environmental pressure groups in case the climate fails to warm: another try
at condemning fossil fuels!"
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/threat-ocean-acidification-greatly-exaggerated

Before attacking hypothetical problems, let us first solve the real problems
that threaten humanity. One single water pump at an equivalent cost of a
couple of solar panels can indeed spare hundreds of Sahel women the daily
journey to the spring and spare many infections and lives.
Martin De Vlieghere, philosopher
J. Fartlington Poopnagel
2010-08-04 15:31:35 UTC
Permalink
2050?

That means most of us will be dead or vegetating and slavering in a
nursing home. So who cares?

Let your grandchildren solve the problem. It'll be THEIRS!
Desertphile
2010-08-04 17:25:21 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 16:03:52 +1000, "OoBbOo NnZz"
http://www.desalination.biz/news/news_story.asp?id=5439&channel=0&title=1%2C100+US+counties+face+water+supply+crisis+by+2050%2C+says+report
03 August 2010
1,100 US counties face water supply crisis by 2050, says report
A new analysis for the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC),
examining the effects of global warming on water supply and demand in
the contiguous United States, has found that more than 1,100 counties
will face higher risks of water shortages by mid-century as the result
of global warming.
http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/watersustainability/files/WaterRisk.pdf
Many counties in the USA already face water shortages.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
B0NnZzo
2010-08-05 02:50:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Desertphile
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 16:03:52 +1000, "OoBbOo NnZz"
http://www.desalination.biz/news/news_story.asp?id=5439&channel=0&title=1%2C100+US+counties+face+water+supply+crisis+by+2050%2C+says+report
03 August 2010
1,100 US counties face water supply crisis by 2050, says report
A new analysis for the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC),
examining the effects of global warming on water supply and demand in
the contiguous United States, has found that more than 1,100 counties
will face higher risks of water shortages by mid-century as the result
of global warming.
http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/watersustainability/files/WaterRisk.pdf
Many counties in the USA already face water shortages.
As they have in the past!



List Of Droughts and Heat Waves

9 Jul 2010





1930s

Many states: longest drought of the 20th century.

Peak periods were 1930, 1934, 1936, 1939, and 1940. During 1934, dry regions
stretched solidly from NY and Pa. across the Great Plains to the Calif.
coast.

A great "dust bowl" covered some 50 million acres in the south-central
plains during the winter of 1935-1936.



1955

Aug. 31-Sept. 7, Los Angeles: 8-day run of 100°-plus heat left 946 people
dead.



1972

July 14-26, New York City: 891 people died in 14-day heat wave.



1980

June-Sept., central and eastern U.S.: an estimated 10,000 people were killed
during the summer in a long heat wave and drought. Damages totaled about $20
billion.



1982-1983

worldwide: El Niño caused wildly unusual weather in the US and elsewhere
throughout 1983. Drought in the western Pacific region led to disastrous
forest fires in Indonesia and Australia. Overall loss to world economy was
over $8 billion. Similar event in 1997-1998 resulted in estimated loss of
$25-$33 billion.



1988

Summer, central and eastern US: a severe drought and heat wave killed an
estimated 5,000-10,000 people, including heat stress-related deaths. Damages
reached $40 billion.



1995

July 12-17, Chicago: 739 people died in record heat wave.

1996



Fall 1995-summer 1996, Tex. and Okla.: severe drought in southern plains
region caused $4 billion in agricultural losses; no deaths.



1998

Summer, southern US: severe heat and drought spread across Tex. and Okla.,
all the way to N.C. and S.C, killing at least 200. Estimated damages of
$6-$9 billion.



1999

Summer, eastern US: rainfall shortages resulted in worst drought on record
for Md., Del., N.J., and R.I. The state of W.Va. was declared a disaster
area. 3.81 million acres were consumed by fire as of mid-Aug. Record heat
throughout the country resulted in 502 deaths nationwide.



2000

Spring-summer, southern US: severe drought and heat killed an estimated 140
people. Damages were estimated at $4 billion.

2003



May-June, southern India: a monthlong intense heat wave claimed more than
1,500 lives.

Aug., Europe: drought conditions and a heat wave, one of the worst in 150
years, broke temperature records from London to Portugal, fueled forest
fires, ruined crops, and caused thousands of deaths. (French fatalities
estimated at more than 14,000.)



2006

July 16-25, California: a two-week heat wave killed at least 140 people.



2007

August, southeastern US: more than 50 deaths and innumerable cases of
heat-related illneses have been attributed to the excessive heat. Drinking
water sources, such as Atlanta's Lake Lanier, have also been severely
depleted.



2008

June 4, California: With reservoir levels well below average and the state
experiencing its driest spring in 88 years, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger
officially declares that California is in a drought and warns of potential
rationing. It is the first such declaration in 17 years.



http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0886145.html





Warmest Regards



Bonz0



"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps
US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists
worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct
from natural variation."

Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville



"It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you
have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your
side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is
wrong. Period."

Professor Richard Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics



"A core problem is that science has given way to ideology. The scientific
method has been dispensed with, or abused, to serve the myth of man-made
global warming."

"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips



"Computer models are built in an almost backwards fashion: The goal is to
show evidence of AGW, and the "scientists" go to work to produce such a
result. When even these models fail to show what advocates want, the data
and interpretations are "fudged" to bring about the desired result"

"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips



"Ocean acidification looks suspiciously like a back-up plan by the
environmental pressure groups in case the climate fails to warm: another try
at condemning fossil fuels!"

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/threat-ocean-acidification-greatly-exaggerated



Before attacking hypothetical problems, let us first solve the real problems
that threaten humanity. One single water pump at an equivalent cost of a
couple of solar panels can indeed spare hundreds of Sahel women the daily
journey to the spring and spare many infections and lives.

Martin De Vlieghere, philosopher
B0NnZzo
2010-08-05 02:51:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Desertphile
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 16:03:52 +1000, "OoBbOo NnZz"
http://www.desalination.biz/news/news_story.asp?id=5439&channel=0&title=1%2C100+US+counties+face+water+supply+crisis+by+2050%2C+says+report
03 August 2010
1,100 US counties face water supply crisis by 2050, says report
A new analysis for the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC),
examining the effects of global warming on water supply and demand in
the contiguous United States, has found that more than 1,100 counties
will face higher risks of water shortages by mid-century as the result
of global warming.
http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/watersustainability/files/WaterRisk.pdf
Many counties in the USA already face water shortages.
As they have in the past!



List Of Droughts and Heat Waves

9 Jul 2010





1930s

Many states: longest drought of the 20th century.

Peak periods were 1930, 1934, 1936, 1939, and 1940. During 1934, dry regions
stretched solidly from NY and Pa. across the Great Plains to the Calif.
coast.

A great "dust bowl" covered some 50 million acres in the south-central
plains during the winter of 1935-1936.



1955

Aug. 31-Sept. 7, Los Angeles: 8-day run of 100°-plus heat left 946 people
dead.



1972

July 14-26, New York City: 891 people died in 14-day heat wave.



1980

June-Sept., central and eastern U.S.: an estimated 10,000 people were killed
during the summer in a long heat wave and drought. Damages totaled about $20
billion.



1982-1983

worldwide: El Niño caused wildly unusual weather in the US and elsewhere
throughout 1983. Drought in the western Pacific region led to disastrous
forest fires in Indonesia and Australia. Overall loss to world economy was
over $8 billion. Similar event in 1997-1998 resulted in estimated loss of
$25-$33 billion.



1988

Summer, central and eastern US: a severe drought and heat wave killed an
estimated 5,000-10,000 people, including heat stress-related deaths. Damages
reached $40 billion.



1995

July 12-17, Chicago: 739 people died in record heat wave.

1996



Fall 1995-summer 1996, Tex. and Okla.: severe drought in southern plains
region caused $4 billion in agricultural losses; no deaths.



1998

Summer, southern US: severe heat and drought spread across Tex. and Okla.,
all the way to N.C. and S.C, killing at least 200. Estimated damages of
$6-$9 billion.



1999

Summer, eastern US: rainfall shortages resulted in worst drought on record
for Md., Del., N.J., and R.I. The state of W.Va. was declared a disaster
area. 3.81 million acres were consumed by fire as of mid-Aug. Record heat
throughout the country resulted in 502 deaths nationwide.



2000

Spring-summer, southern US: severe drought and heat killed an estimated 140
people. Damages were estimated at $4 billion.

2003



May-June, southern India: a monthlong intense heat wave claimed more than
1,500 lives.

Aug., Europe: drought conditions and a heat wave, one of the worst in 150
years, broke temperature records from London to Portugal, fueled forest
fires, ruined crops, and caused thousands of deaths. (French fatalities
estimated at more than 14,000.)



2006

July 16-25, California: a two-week heat wave killed at least 140 people.



2007

August, southeastern US: more than 50 deaths and innumerable cases of
heat-related illneses have been attributed to the excessive heat. Drinking
water sources, such as Atlanta's Lake Lanier, have also been severely
depleted.



2008

June 4, California: With reservoir levels well below average and the state
experiencing its driest spring in 88 years, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger
officially declares that California is in a drought and warns of potential
rationing. It is the first such declaration in 17 years.



http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0886145.html





Warmest Regards



Bonz0



"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps
US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists
worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct
from natural variation."

Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville



"It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you
have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your
side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is
wrong. Period."

Professor Richard Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics



"A core problem is that science has given way to ideology. The scientific
method has been dispensed with, or abused, to serve the myth of man-made
global warming."

"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips



"Computer models are built in an almost backwards fashion: The goal is to
show evidence of AGW, and the "scientists" go to work to produce such a
result. When even these models fail to show what advocates want, the data
and interpretations are "fudged" to bring about the desired result"

"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips



"Ocean acidification looks suspiciously like a back-up plan by the
environmental pressure groups in case the climate fails to warm: another try
at condemning fossil fuels!"

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/threat-ocean-acidification-greatly-exaggerated



Before attacking hypothetical problems, let us first solve the real problems
that threaten humanity. One single water pump at an equivalent cost of a
couple of solar panels can indeed spare hundreds of Sahel women the daily
journey to the spring and spare many infections and lives.

Martin De Vlieghere, philosopher
0B0NnZz
2010-08-06 04:10:10 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 17:14:24 -0700 (PDT), "$27 TRILLION to pay for
http://www.desalination.biz/news/news_story.asp?
id=5439&channel=0&tit...
03 August 2010
1,100 US counties face water supply crisis by 2050, says report
There is over 60,000,000,000,000,000 gallons (60,000 TRILLION) in the
Great Lakes, 20% of the Worlds freshwater. Replenished every 120
days.
Do you honestly think anyone is going to die of thirst, save some
Mexican trying to cross a desert to sneak into the U.S.?
Yo, bozo. Ever hear of "The continental divide"? How do you propose
to pump trillions of gallons of water over the rockies?
There is no water shortage. Never has been. Never will be. There exists
an unlimited supply. Such "shortage" is nothing more than a made up
crisis by government agencies for the sole purpose of raising water
rates.
You've never lived in the West, I take it.
I live in the west, and the 'shortage' is man-made due to poor planning.
There's plenty of water, all it takes is some energy to make it available
wherever it is needed. Too bad politics define energy policy, as opposed
to rational though.
ABSOLUTELY!


California's Greenie-Made Drought

A typical greenie ploy - restrict water supplies and then blame it on
mythical manmade global warming!

29 Apr 2010



QUOTE: it's been like this for two years now, as Congress and bureaucrats
cite "drought," "global warming" and "endangered species" to deny water to
this $37 billion breadbasket through arbitrary "environmental" quotas.





QUOTE: Whatever the excuse, 75% of the fresh water that has historically
irrigated California is now being washed to the open sea. For farmers in the
southwest part of the valley, last year's cutoff amounted to 90%.







Would France rip out its storied vineyards?

Would Juan Valdez scorch Colombia's coffee crop?

Sri Lanka its black pepper harvest?

China its tea?



With global markets won by nations specializing in doing what they do best,
and with regional reputations important enough to drive some nations to
protectionism, it's almost unthinkable.



But then there's California.



On a springtime drive through the Central Valley, it's hard not to notice
how federal and state governments are hell-bent on destroying the state's
top export - almonds - and everything else in the nation's most productive
farmland.



Instead of pink blossoms and green shoots along Highway 5 in April, vast
spans from Bakersfield to Fresno sit bone-dry. Brown grass, dead orchards
and lifeless grapevine skeletons stretch for miles for lack of water.



For every fallow field, there's a sign that farmers have placed alongside
the highway: "No Water = No Food," "No Water = No Jobs," "Congress Created
Dust Bowl."



Locals say it's been like this for two years now, as Congress and
bureaucrats cite "drought," "global warming" and "endangered species" to
deny water to this $37 billion breadbasket through arbitrary "environmental"
quotas.



It started with a 2008 federal court order that stopped water flowing from
northern tributaries on a supposed need to protect a small fish - the delta
smelt - that was getting ground up in the turbines of pump stations that
divert the water south. The court knew it was bad law, but Congress refused
to exempt the fish from the Endangered Species Act and the diversion didn't
help the fish.



After that, the water cutoff was blamed on "drought," though northern
reservoirs are currently full. Now the cry is "save the salmon," a reference
to water needs of the state's northern fisheries.



Whatever the excuse, 75% of the fresh water that has historically irrigated
California is now being washed to the open sea. For farmers in the southwest
part of the valley, last year's cutoff amounted to 90%.



"It's pretty hard to keep crops alive at 10%," says Jim Jasper, who runs a
62-year-old almond farm in Newman that employs 170. "That's one irrigation,
and trees take 10 to 12 over the growing season from March to October."
Almond trees cost $8,000 per acre and take six years to start producing, so
farmers reserved their 10% allocation for mature trees first.



The cutoff didn't kill just trees, however. It also devastated the area's
economy. Unemployment in some valley towns has shot up to 45%. Mortgage
defaults are on the rise, and food lines are lengthening.



Near Bakersfield, Calif., a farmer posts a sign blaming Congress for a sharp
drop in water supplies that has slashed farm output.



Call it what it is: a man-made drought.



Much like organized criminals in big-city fish markets who see to it that
product spoils when kickbacks aren't forthcoming, Washington's pols are now
using their ability to turn water on and off as a coercion tool.



Take the three congressmen who represent the valley and how they were
pressured to vote for President Obama's health care bill.



It didn't go without notice by farmers like Jasper that the 5% water
allocations announced in February for all three congressional districts were
lifted to 25% for the two whose Democratic representatives, Jim Costa of
Fresno and Dennis Cardoza of Modesto, switched their votes on health reform
from "no" to "aye."



Devin Nunes, a Republican from Tulare, wouldn't sell his vote, and parts of
his district had to make do with the 5% allotment.



This isn't the only way water allocation is politicized.



According to Jasper, water in federal districts is distributed by 30-year
contracts that guarantee water but not the quantity. Older irrigation
districts get more, and newer ones (such as Jasper's, which at 60 years in
operation is considered new) get less.



To win political points from time to time, federal officials announce
short-term increases in allocations - most recently, to 30%. But these
increments are so iffy and irregular that farmers can't plan their crops or
arrange for bank loans.



Bureaucrats also do their part to ensure that drought conditions persist.
Lake Shasta, which supplies the federal Central Valley Project though the
Sacramento River, is so full that rice farmers upstream have plenty extra to
sell. But Lake Oroville, which supplies California's State Water Project
through the Feather River, while not in a drought state, is not full.



State regulations say that upstream farmers who get water from Shasta cannot
sell their extra water to the Central Valley farmers because Feather River
farmers along the state system must sell first. It matters not that there's
a surplus on the Shasta side and a deficit on the Oroville side. Even with
the orchards of about a third of the state's 6,000 almond farmers withering,
state bureaucrats are hung up on pecking order.



There's no good reason to destroy California's most productive region, which
turns out 85% of the world's almonds, or to coldly demonize its growers as
"corporate agribusiness."



That's a favorite slur of leftist politicians, such as Bay Area Rep. George
Miller, who write off the agricultural damage to global warming and drought
while harming the very environment they claim they want to preserve. The
valley's water table, for example, is falling as desperate farmers try to
retrieve whatever supplies they can.



"What they have done is try to create a green utopia in the San Joaquin
Valley, and in the process they are ruining people's lives," Nunes said.



Higher food prices are also on the way, Jasper warns. "Our cost of water to
production is 25% to 30%," he says. "About a third of California almonds are
affected - 280,000 acres out of 800,000."



Another unintended consequence is that much of the food Californians consume
will no longer be local. Some crops will move to Mexico and then must be
imported. Meanwhile, Chile, Spain and Australia have begun to develop their
own almond industries.



This was made painfully obvious in a news photo datelined Mendota, Calif.,
and showing farm workers standing in food lines. The laborers who once
picked vegetables in California's world-renowned "salad bowl" were taking
handouts not of California carrots, but of baby carrots grown in China.



http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=531662





Warmest Regards



Bonz0



"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps
US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists
worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct
from natural variation."

Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville



"It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you
have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your
side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is
wrong. Period."

Professor Richard Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics



"A core problem is that science has given way to ideology. The scientific
method has been dispensed with, or abused, to serve the myth of man-made
global warming."

"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips



"Computer models are built in an almost backwards fashion: The goal is to
show evidence of AGW, and the "scientists" go to work to produce such a
result. When even these models fail to show what advocates want, the data
and interpretations are "fudged" to bring about the desired result"

"The World Turned Upside Down", Melanie Phillips



"Ocean acidification looks suspiciously like a back-up plan by the
environmental pressure groups in case the climate fails to warm: another try
at condemning fossil fuels!"

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/threat-ocean-acidification-greatly-exaggerated



Before attacking hypothetical problems, let us first solve the real problems
that threaten humanity. One single water pump at an equivalent cost of a
couple of solar panels can indeed spare hundreds of Sahel women the daily
journey to the spring and spare many infections and lives.

Martin De Vlieghere, philosopher
Last Post
2010-08-07 15:45:25 UTC
Permalink
Ø 45 years ago, my friend and colleague Dr
Harold Wise presented a paper to a State and
Municipal Planning Conference in which we
stressed the importance of controlling
population within the local water and power
resources. Among the states centered out were
California, Florida and New Jersey.

A prime culprit is the results of "urban sprawl"—
Big box stores and shopping megamalls w huge
blacktop parking lots along with too much/many
roads and highways. All that tar and concrete
deflects much of the rainwater from the water
tables and by storm sewers into the flooding
rivers.


— —
Political correctness is destroying Europe.

America will be the next down the PC tube
greased by academic idiots like Scott Erb,
Noam Chumpsky, and Ward Churchill,
Slick Willy & Hilly, Algore & Pelosi, and
Barak Hussein Muhammad Obama, too.
Beerman
2010-08-07 20:29:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Last Post
Ø 45 years ago, my friend and colleague Dr
Harold Wise presented a paper to a State and Municipal Planning
Conference in which we stressed the importance of controlling
population within the local water and power resources. Among the
states centered out were California, Florida and New Jersey.
A prime culprit is the results of "urban sprawl"— Big box stores and
shopping megamalls w huge blacktop parking lots along with too
much/many roads and highways. All that tar and concrete deflects
much of the rainwater from the water tables and by storm sewers into
the flooding rivers.
— —
Political correctness is destroying Europe.
America will be the next down the PC tube greased by academic idiots
like Scott Erb, Noam Chumpsky, and Ward Churchill,
Slick Willy & Hilly, Algore & Pelosi, and Barak Hussein Muhammad
Obama, too.
I agree. (read last paragraph -summation)

Public conservation of resources would force corporations to pay
politicians to gain rights to free resources if the GOP has their way.
Anything else would be construed by rightwing media as anti-capitalist
and thus, communist. I point to our power grid as an example.

The corporations in cities with the most money will win the water rights
from the others. LV will obviously gain the water rights LA if LA can't
come up with the money to pay the water bill! Small farmers have already
lost because of the cost of water (they had to sell their rights to pay
the bills) and their inability to gain cheap labor. Now we import food
from China. Nice!

I can't imagine the problems politicians would have with discussing
population control. The Christians would take this as a attack against
them and simply start breading dumber people even faster.

I foresee....
As most humans have not evolved beyond animal-istic selflessness and
these problems will not be addressed because of political infighting,
nature will eventually solve the problem of overpopulation through famine
and decease. Darwinism will allow the intelligent and the rich (who are
not necessarily intelligent) to survive despite the gunnut survivalist
who will eventually eat themselves or be eradicated by a corporate
government.
Xan Du
2010-08-07 21:57:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beerman
Post by Last Post
Ø 45 years ago, my friend and colleague Dr
Harold Wise presented a paper to a State and Municipal Planning
Conference in which we stressed the importance of controlling
population within the local water and power resources. Among the
states centered out were California, Florida and New Jersey.
A prime culprit is the results of "urban sprawl"— Big box stores and
shopping megamalls w huge blacktop parking lots along with too
much/many roads and highways. All that tar and concrete deflects
much of the rainwater from the water tables and by storm sewers into
the flooding rivers.
— —
Political correctness is destroying Europe.
America will be the next down the PC tube greased by academic idiots
like Scott Erb, Noam Chumpsky, and Ward Churchill,
Slick Willy& Hilly, Algore& Pelosi, and Barak Hussein Muhammad
Obama, too.
I agree. (read last paragraph -summation)
Public conservation of resources would force corporations to pay
politicians to gain rights to free resources if the GOP has their way.
Anything else would be construed by rightwing media as anti-capitalist
and thus, communist. I point to our power grid as an example.
The corporations in cities with the most money will win the water rights
from the others. LV will obviously gain the water rights LA if LA can't
come up with the money to pay the water bill! Small farmers have already
lost because of the cost of water (they had to sell their rights to pay
the bills) and their inability to gain cheap labor. Now we import food
from China. Nice!
I can't imagine the problems politicians would have with discussing
population control. The Christians would take this as a attack against
them and simply start breading dumber people even faster.
I foresee....
As most humans have not evolved beyond animal-istic selflessness and
these problems will not be addressed because of political infighting,
nature will eventually solve the problem of overpopulation through famine
and decease. Darwinism will allow the intelligent and the rich (who are
not necessarily intelligent) to survive despite the gunnut survivalist
who will eventually eat themselves or be eradicated by a corporate
government.
That's certainly a possibility. However, as that would be bad business
for whatever mix of parties are in power when things get critical, it is
also entirely possible that some semblance of partisan cooperation will
return, appropriate public funds will be borrowed and spent to address
them, and total collapse will be avoided.

Assume for a moment that oil usage continues as projected (sans Kyoto or
any other reduction regime) AND that this does not result in
catastrophic climate change or sea level rise. At some point oil prices
will rise high enough to make carbon-neutral energy sources competitive
with crude oil. Not all alternatives are carbon neutral (natural gas,
oil sands and coal gassification for instance), but wind, hydro, tidal
and biofuel (particularly cyanobacteria) are.

There are also climate engineering technologies which potentially look
to be both cheaper and faster-acting than GHG stabilization/reduction.
One proposal is the use of stratospheric sulfate aerosols, which mimic
the cooling effects generated immediately after volcanic eruptions. A
good primer is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_sulfate_aerosols_%28geoengineering%29

This is far from a slam dunk -- there are plenty of questions to answer
that have only just begun to be studied.

My suspicion about the oil companies is that they're actually quite a
bit less doubtful of AGW than they let on, and are strategically waiting
for the price oil to climb much higher before seriously committing to
the expensive process of developing carbon-neutral fuels -- while at the
same time betting either that they'll reach that point before
catastrophic warming occurs, or that even if it does, other mitigation
technologies that don't involve emission reductions will become viable.

I don't have proof of any of this, but if I had trillions invested in
oil production and were a right greedy bastard, it's how I'd think.

-Xan
Day Brown
2010-08-09 00:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Xan Du
There are also climate engineering technologies which potentially look
to be both cheaper and faster-acting than GHG stabilization/reduction.
One proposal is the use of stratospheric sulfate aerosols, which mimic
the cooling effects generated immediately after volcanic eruptions. A
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_sulfate_aerosols_%28geoengineering%29
This is far from a slam dunk -- there are plenty of questions to answer
that have only just begun to be studied.
My suspicion about the oil companies is that they're actually quite a
bit less doubtful of AGW than they let on, and are strategically waiting
for the price oil to climb much higher before seriously committing to
the expensive process of developing carbon-neutral fuels -- while at the
same time betting either that they'll reach that point before
catastrophic warming occurs, or that even if it does, other mitigation
technologies that don't involve emission reductions will become viable.
I don't have proof of any of this, but if I had trillions invested in
oil production and were a right greedy bastard, it's how I'd think.
Anything is possible, but when has an elite ever cut back to allocate
more for the lower classes to keep a system going? Maybe someone has
pointed out to them the universal lessons of History? Think they'll get it?

Jared Diamond's outline of the collapse of the Greenland Norse is most
instructive because climate change was involved, and no doubt there were
deniers. There was a geopolitical shift as well.

The Muslims cut off the supply of Elephant ivory. Greenland supplied
Walrus, which paid well. But then, trade was established in Russia by
the pagan vikings with the Muslims, bypassing the Christians, making
elephant ivory available...

But whatever, the point was available resources peaked. And rather than
cutting back to buy time to find alternatives, the elites simply
squeezed everyone else harder; this kept the level of their incomes and
perks rising, giving them the illusion progress continued. Diamond says
they increased the purchase of jewelry.

Had they instead, bought iron and brought wood working tools to Canada,
they could've built a new ship building industry, fishing fleet, and
gone into the cod business. But the elites didnt understand these kinds
of enterprises so they were not properly capitalized. The elites didnt
want new resources developed because that created new power bases that
would contend with them for control.

Which is why alternative energy now hasnt gotten capitalized in nearly
the scale to have an economic impact.
Xan Du
2010-08-09 01:14:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Day Brown
Post by Xan Du
There are also climate engineering technologies which potentially look
to be both cheaper and faster-acting than GHG stabilization/reduction.
One proposal is the use of stratospheric sulfate aerosols, which mimic
the cooling effects generated immediately after volcanic eruptions. A
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_sulfate_aerosols_%28geoengineering%29
This is far from a slam dunk -- there are plenty of questions to answer
that have only just begun to be studied.
My suspicion about the oil companies is that they're actually quite a
bit less doubtful of AGW than they let on, and are strategically waiting
for the price oil to climb much higher before seriously committing to
the expensive process of developing carbon-neutral fuels -- while at the
same time betting either that they'll reach that point before
catastrophic warming occurs, or that even if it does, other mitigation
technologies that don't involve emission reductions will become viable.
I don't have proof of any of this, but if I had trillions invested in
oil production and were a right greedy bastard, it's how I'd think.
Anything is possible, but when has an elite ever cut back to allocate
more for the lower classes to keep a system going?
That's precisely why I think we'll probably burn fossil fuel until oil
prices get high enough to start slowing down the rest of the economy
start slowing down. Of course, if history is any lesson, we'll possibly
bumble into another financial crash first ...
Post by Day Brown
Maybe someone has
pointed out to them the universal lessons of History? Think they'll get it?
It's possible they get it, but just don't care.
Post by Day Brown
Jared Diamond's outline of the collapse of the Greenland Norse is most
instructive because climate change was involved, and no doubt there were
deniers. There was a geopolitical shift as well.
Is that in _Guns, Germs and Steel_?
Post by Day Brown
The Muslims cut off the supply of Elephant ivory. Greenland supplied
Walrus, which paid well. But then, trade was established in Russia by
the pagan vikings with the Muslims, bypassing the Christians, making
elephant ivory available...
But whatever, the point was available resources peaked. And rather than
cutting back to buy time to find alternatives, the elites simply
squeezed everyone else harder; this kept the level of their incomes and
perks rising, giving them the illusion progress continued. Diamond says
they increased the purchase of jewelry.
Had they instead, bought iron and brought wood working tools to Canada,
they could've built a new ship building industry, fishing fleet, and
gone into the cod business. But the elites didnt understand these kinds
of enterprises so they were not properly capitalized. The elites didnt
want new resources developed because that created new power bases that
would contend with them for control.
Which is why alternative energy now hasnt gotten capitalized in nearly
the scale to have an economic impact.
I see why you've been leaning toward a crash.

How is the barley working out for you?

-Xan
Day Brown
2010-08-09 04:46:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Xan Du
Post by Day Brown
Anything is possible, but when has an elite ever cut back to allocate
more for the lower classes to keep a system going?
That's precisely why I think we'll probably burn fossil fuel until oil
prices get high enough to start slowing down the rest of the economy
start slowing down. Of course, if history is any lesson, we'll possibly
bumble into another financial crash first ...
That's the problem with Hubbard's peak. its only a smooth bell curve on
the way up. As the supply lessens, greed will increase the level of
violence used attempting to get control over a supply. This damages
infrastructure reducing output, driving the price higher, the greed...
Post by Xan Du
Post by Day Brown
Maybe someone has
pointed out to them the universal lessons of History? Think they'll get it?
It's possible they get it, but just don't care.
Post by Day Brown
Jared Diamond's outline of the collapse of the Greenland Norse is most
instructive because climate change was involved, and no doubt there were
deniers. There was a geopolitical shift as well.
Is that in _Guns, Germs and Steel_?
He wrote of the Norse in 'Collapse'. He does not point it out, but if
you look at the five examples, in every case, as the resource base is
maxed, the elites, rather than cutting back to buy time to look for new
methods, simply increases exploitation. This keeps their incomes and
perks increasing, giving them the illusion progress continues.
Post by Xan Du
Post by Day Brown
The elites didnt
want new resources developed because that created new power bases that
would contend with them for control.
Which is why alternative energy now hasnt gotten capitalized in nearly
the scale to have an economic impact.
I see why you've been leaning toward a crash.
How is the barley working out for you?
I got a test jar soaking to sprout right now. However, it didnt have ergot.
Last Post
2010-08-09 06:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Which is why alternative energy now hasn't gotten capitalized in nearly
the scale to have an economic impact.
ø Wind and solar are pitifully inefficient
Major projects are being abandoned as
fast as new ones go up.

ø At best wind turbines only supply 6% of
rated capacity to the grid.

Ø Your post was off topic.
The message below is ON topic

Ø 45 years ago, my friend and colleague Dr
Harold Wise presented a paper to a State and
Municipal Planning Conference in which we
stressed the importance of controlling
population within the local water and power
resources. Among the states centered out were
California, Florida and New Jersey.

A prime culprit is the results of "urban sprawl"—
big box stores and shopping megamalls w huge
blacktop parking lots along with too much/many
roads and highways. All that tar and concrete
deflects much of the rainwater from the water
tables and by storm sewers into the flooding
rivers.

—— ——
There are three types of people that you
can_not_talk_into_behaving_well. The
stupid, the religious fanatic, and the evil.

1- The stupid aren't smart enough to follow the
logic of what you say. You have to tell them
what is right in very simple terms. If they do
not agree, you will never be able to change
their mind.

2- The religious fanatic: If what you say goes
against their religious belief, they will cling to
that belief even if it means their death.

3- There is no way to reform evil- not in a
million years. There is no way to convince

anthropogenic_global_warming_alarmists,

terrorists, serial killers, paedophiles, and

predators to change their evil ways, They
knew what they were doing was wrong, but
knowledge didn't stop them. It only made
them more careful in how they went about
performing their evil deeds.

Scalia'sButtBoy
2010-08-07 22:12:36 UTC
Permalink
"Let them drink ice tea!"
l***@gmail.com
2010-08-07 23:10:53 UTC
Permalink
| In real science the burden of proof is always
| on the proposer, never on myself because I never
| provide evidence, just my insane opinions based
| on my abject ignorance, senility and stupidity.
| So far the scientists of the world have failed
| to convince me, a senile old science illiterate
| with no education and nothing to do all day but
| spout incoherent gibberish to satisfy my attention
| starved inferiority complex. I've never studied
| science, I never graduated high school. I'm simply
| a mentally ill, mentally dificient know nothing and
| a kook who eats my own shit because I can't afford
| food because I'm on government pension.



-----

There are three types of people that you can not talk into behaving well. The
stupid, the rightist religious fanatic, and the evil rightist.

1-The right wing stupid aren't smart enough to follow the logic of what you
say. You have to tell them what is right in very simple terms. If they don't
agree, then you'll never be able to change their mind.

2- the right wing religious fanatic If what you say goes against their
religious belief, they will cling to that religious belief even if it means
their death."

3- There is no way to reform evil Not in a million years. There is no way to
convince the right wing terrorists, anti-science anthropogenic global warming
deniers, serial killers, right wing paedophiles, and predators to change
their evil ways. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but that knowledge
didn't stop them. It only made them more careful in how they went about
performing their evil acts.
Last Post
2010-08-08 01:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Ø 45 years ago, my friend and colleague Dr
Harold Wise presented a paper to a State and
Municipal Planning Conference in which we
stressed the importance of controlling
population within the local water and power
resources. Among the states centered out were
California, Florida and New Jersey.

A prime culprit is the results of "urban sprawl"—
Big box stores and shopping megamalls w huge
blacktop parking lots along with too much/many
roads and highways. All that tar and concrete
deflects much of the rainwater from the water
tables and by storm sewers into the flooding
rivers.

— —
Political correctness is destroying Europe.

America will be the next down the PC tube
greased by academic idiots like Scott Erb,
Noam Chumpsky, and Ward Churchill,
Slick Willy & Hilly, Algore & Pelosi, and
Barak Hussein Muhammad Obama, too.
Dawlish
2010-08-08 09:14:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Last Post
Ø 45 years ago, my friend and colleague Dr
    Harold Wise presented a paper to a State and
    Municipal Planning Conference in which we
    stressed the importance of controlling
    population within the local water  and power
    resources. Among the states centered out were
    California, Florida and New Jersey.
    A prime culprit is the results of "urban sprawl"—
    Big box stores and shopping megamalls w huge
    blacktop parking lots along with too much/many
    roads and highways. All that tar and concrete
    deflects much of the rainwater from the water
    tables and by storm sewers into the flooding
    rivers.
— —
   Political correctness is destroying Europe.
   America will be the next down the PC tube
   greased by academic idiots like Scott Erb,
   Noam Chumpsky, and Ward Churchill,
   Slick Willy & Hilly, Algore & Pelosi, and
   Barak Hussein Muhammad Obama, too.
Is it me, or did both these stupids say absoloutely *nothing* except
to post sigs in these last two posts??

Barmy.
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